Here is a good way to explain BPA from a Pro BPA standpoint to those of you that have a need standpoint (1 Viewer)

[ChopperSaint]

BPA is outdated. Choosing a player in a need position with a similar grade is much more effective in an era of free agency and salary caps, because you lose them if you stack up on a position. Also, leaving holes on the team forces the team to sign more expensive veterans. Finally, teams need to get as talented as possible at starting positions when you have a window of opportunity with a special player such as Brees, rather than drafting a player to wait in the wings, and forcing the team to start a weak player at another position. When it is time to pick, one has to analyze needs vs available players. It is not a good idea to pick a player that is rated much lower, but I think in most cases teams can find a player that both meets a need and is rated closely.

You got that all backwards.
BPA is even more important today then it was pre free agency.
You have a much better opportunity to pinpoint your weaknesses and fix them then ever before.

In the old days sometimes the draft was the only real way to fill needs.

Now that you have unrestricted FA to fill needs BPA is more viable then ever.

 

[Goatman Saint]

I believe you go BPA within the areas of need. If the BPA is a QB, TE, RB then no I wouldn't go with them IF a player of need is ranked similar or very close. Choosing BPA has worked well with the Saints because they always have a plan B in case. It's not like they go in with a huge need and will reach for a player, any player just to fit a hole.

 

[livefromDC]

I think you go BPA in certain situations, but not everytime. In our case if BPA is an offensive player, but you have a need on D, and if the grades are close enough, you go D. If no defensive player of near value is there, you trade down. The reason is we have too many needs and taking BPA is a luxury. I'd take 2 solid needs over 1 great want.

I'm by no means an expert here, that's just my philosophy on it. For us in particular, we have several needs. A great WR or other position we're solid at won't help us when offenses are scoring at will on us.

I think the assumption when discussing BPA over need is 1) you aren't able to trade down or 2) you have already traded down. In either case, the conversation hinges on using the pick to either take the best player available or fill a need. It defeats the purpose of the argment to say trade down when discussing what philosophy to follow WHEN picking. If you pick at 15 or trade down, the same question still remains...BPA or need. It sounds like you lean towards need.

I like BPA but I think you should add at a position of need.

Huh? It goes without saying that if you're philosophy is to fill a need, you are going to take the best player available that fills that need. You won't just take any guy that fills the need, you would take the best one of the lot.

Lets say we go with Brown at LT. What if we don't pick up a FA LT and no other LT is the best player all through the draft. What then? Yes BPA is the most important way to go but not a strict BPA. I also think developmental players that have a high ceiling at a position of non need are good to.

The Saints do a great job of filling holes leading up to the draft just so they can take the BPA. I'm pretty certain that by the time the draft rolls around the Saints will have picked up a LT in free agency or by trade.

I think Chopper nailed it with the original post. The Saints will rank the players based on how they predict the players will perform as pros. If the decision comes down to the 4th best OL and the best safety or WR or whomever. We will take the player the teams feels is the safest bet regardless of position.

 

[tarusman28]

I do not think Loomis would reach for an OT at 15. I do not think very many people here are advocating for that...

Besides, there will be group of OT that will be available in the 3rd when the Saints are on the clock.

 

[Louisianimal_]

He's 5'8 170!!!! We have him on our team already Darren sproles. Where would tavon Austin fit in our offense? We need defense

 

[Sev705]

The only problem with BPA is that you could end up like the Lions taking 3 wr's in 4-5 years at the top of the draft. Yeah, they ended up with C.Johnson, but they also got stuck with a couple of duds. (though the one they traded to dallas for a couple 1st rounders worked out well in the end.)

BPA is subjective. A player that can help fill a deficency will always have a better grade than someone who doesn't. Say Player WR is graded at 88(example) and Player DE/LT is graded at 82 or so. Player DE/LT will be drafted because it's not that big of a difference and the team could use a DE/LT more. It's like a free 5-10 points.

 

[pirttihirmu]

My two wooden cents are as follows: BPA is generally a really good draft philosophy to follow. I think some people don't understand that sometimes, even if there's a huge need, the options just aren't good enough to go for a real game changer. Sometimes it's better to postpone the need with a cheap player. Now our O-line has to be sturdy to protect Breesus, but i'm thinking now isn't the best time to go head over heels for that tackle. In the draft linemen are projected to fly out of the board, and if Mighty-Mickey doesn't conjure up some serious FA magic we're left with draft-scraps and the expensive semi quasi serviceable FA-scraps.

On the other hand, we can imagine drafting other positions with our 15th that usually wouldn't be there. And once we start talking WR, I believe we're good now but in couple years i believe we'll be going trough big changes. Now let's think about the draft a couple years down the road where the most glaring need is a WR. We'll probably and hopefully be drafting near the 30th pick, and i think we all agree that usually the best WR's are off the board by that time. The way the league is going WR's are getting huge money in FA. Again what do we get if we don't command top tier cap space? Scraps.

Now haven't been watching Austin or Patterson play except for some youtube clips, but the way people are talking about them I'll assume they're both possible monsters. You see, I for one am aching over the fact that our D sucks big greasy monkeyballs. That being said, I really believe getting the Dude and Lewis and Butler really does the trick. We will get better. Now let's say our Offense starts gagging, and let me say re-watching the games made it clear that it can go sour sooner than we think. I think this would be a good time to consider picking a franchise WR.

It's just a couple thoughts, but after being really against the whole "draft anything else but D or OT" thing I think I finally understand. Then again Sean and Mickey are going to decide what's best for us. I just think the choice isn't as easy and obvious as i thought it to be.

Good point from OP that people tend to put too much value to the drafts. I'd really love to have lots of picks, but I know that usually when projections go wrong it's from riches to rags rather than the other way around.

 

[lapaz]

You got that all backwards.
BPA is even more important today then it was pre free agency.
You have a much better opportunity to pinpoint your weaknesses and fix them then ever before.

In the old days sometimes the draft was the only real way to fill needs.

Now that you have unrestricted FA to fill needs BPA is more viable then ever.

There have always been cuts, trades and signings without free agency, but there wasn't a salary cap which creates a disincentive to stock up on one position. Whereas previously you could count on keeping the good players you drafted for as long as you wanted as a backup, good players rarely remain as backups anymore. So, if you draft the BPA, and he's marginally better than the current starter, then that starter has now been moved to backup. If he's a good player, then he'll probably leave as soon as his contract expires, or worse, if he's a good player with a fat contract, the team will probably cut him, which hurts the team's ability to sign other players due to the cap hit. This era is all about value. One has to account for how easy it is for players to move around. BPA was great in the past, but using that as a strict approach will lead to marginal improvements, but in the long run, does the team a disservice A team's goal should be to take the BPA that fills a need AND that is also rated closely, because that means making the largest improvement in the team. If a team is unlucky, then there won't be a player that fills a need that is also rated closely, which means they have to take the next best option, but the initial goal should not be to take the BPA without consideration of need. Furthermore, after the fact filling a team's needs with free agents is more expensive than filling them through the draft.

 

[4thqtrsaint]

I do lean towards need. Not every draft, but certainly in this one. I think when you trade down, its less likely to come across an either/or situation. In the first round the separation in player grades is greater. As you go down in the draft I think you have more players with similar grades to choose from. If you trade down, you're going to pick up an extra pick or two, allowing you to take a need and BPA in the lower rounds.

But my whole point is, we don't have a great cap situation, which will prevent us from filling every need through FA. We will go in this draft with multiple needs. We don't want to reach to fill a need, but IF there is a close enough value between need & BPA, we go need.

In years past, we fill holes through FA, then take BPA in the draft. I get that; I'm on board with that. But this year is different. If you take BPA with 5 needs unfilled, I think you can hurt your team. And BPA doesn't equal good player any more than taking a need equals bad player.

Each year is different and this year we're hurting at several positions. It just doesn't make sense to take BPA, if that guy is at a position we are already stocked up on. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Danneaux]

If the BPA is a RB in rounds 3, 4 ,5 and 6, do we pick 4 RB's?

I think BPA is actually a range, not a specific grade.

If a DE has a 97.4 grade, and a QB has a 97.5 grade, do you pick the QB? No, I'd pick the DE since its a need and the grades are close enough.

I'd imagine they are probably ranked in groups. I would like to see their ranking system.

Is it a 1 through 10 grade?
Is it A+, A, A-, B+, etc...?
Is it a 1 thru 100.00 grade?

 

[Merl]

If I was a GM I would go this way
1. Give each available player a grade based on his game tape, workout numbers, interview impressions, and back ground issues. (not in any particular order).
2. rank them based on that grade on the board.
3. Just before the draft look at my current roster and decide where there is an immediate need for the upcoming season.
4. each player on the list would then be given 1 extra point if he plays one of those positions.
5. again go through the current roster and project where there could possibly be a need the following season.
6. each player that plays those positions are given 1/2 extra pt.
7. re-order the board based on the final grades.

 

[Tacoes]

I'm all in with BPA. If it's Tavon Austin, then I'd be happier than a pig in ****.

That pretty much describes a happy Clowns fan.

 

[St. Geezy]

The only problem with BPA is that you could end up like the Lions taking 3 wr's in 4-5 years at the top of the draft. Yeah, they ended up with C.Johnson, but they also got stuck with a couple of duds. (though the one they traded to dallas for a couple 1st rounders worked out well in the end.)

BPA is subjective. A player that can help fill a deficency will always have a better grade than someone who doesn't. Say Player WR is graded at 88(example) and Player DE/LT is graded at 82 or so. Player DE/LT will be drafted because it's not that big of a difference and the team could use a DE/LT more. It's like a free 5-10 points.

Calvin wasn't one of three. It was Carlos Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams.

 

[Javon7143]

Let me say this thread was not intended to make a case to take Austin.
I was just using him as an example of BPA at 15 at a position that is not considered a big need for the Saints.

You can insert any player in the draft that you consider BPA at 15.
I just threw his name out there just as an example.

He's 5'8 170!!!! We have him on our team already Darren sproles. Where would tavon Austin fit in our offense? We need defense

I guess you missed this post.

But saying that is like saying where would you put Jarvis Jones because we have Victor Butler on our roster now.

Payton's said

On the Saints’ priorities for this year’s NFL Draft: “There’s always that concept of need vs. best player available. I think we will try to clump players in that first round where we are at and where we think a group of players will fall. There are a handful of areas we need to improve on. Without getting into detail specifically, some of it might be a result of free agency. We have some players on our current roster that we have to find out about and so (draft priorities) can change based on some free agency you have on your own roster. Defense is going to be an area we look closely at. You always want to pay attention to the linemen in each class. I think we have done a pretty good job over the years of drafting offensive linemen, guys from big and small schools, that have come in and filled a role. We still have a lot of time here and a lot of homework to do prior to the draft.”

and in a seperate interview ...

“I do think you have to pay attention to what the value is how they are graded. That being said, usually you make sure you like 15 guys if you are picking at No. 15 or at least you have rated your board so you are prepared for each scenario. I think you have to be careful you don’t try to invent or create a position. In other words I think sometimes your mistakes are made in your value when you are saying you want a safety and you are trying to create a safety and you tend to grade a little higher so you can pick one. All of a sudden you have passed up on a good football player.
“We are looking at how we have these guys graded but we are also paying attention to what we need. It goes back and forth. I think from my experience here when we have drafted, when there is a player’s magnet that is sitting well above everyone else’s, we discuss it, talk closely about it and we have ended up with some pretty good football players. I think that is the key.”

 

[Ragin Caucasian]

Here is the kicker:

Last year we had the worst defense in the history of the NFL. The ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE NFL.

Offense is not even an option. We really must pick the best Defensive Player Available.