Here we go again - Video shows white police officer killing a black man in Minnesota by suffocation as the man pleads "I can't breathe" (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Ice T knows what's up

Fwiw, to me, this kneeling might have been well-intentioned, but a better gesture would be 2 things, one, get out into the community and actually build relationships with the people you're supposed to be serving. Second, meaningfully reform the criminal justice system. Until those 2 things happen, I don’t think much changes.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Interesting take on the autopsy.

This was a great explanation here. I'm interested to see the results of the Baden autopsy and how much it might rip the ME's report to shreds.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Fwiw, to me, this kneeling might have been well-intentioned, but a better gesture would be 2 things, one, get out into the community and actually build relationships with the people you're supposed to be serving. Second, meaningfully reform the criminal justice system. Until those 2 things happen, I don’t think much changes.

obviously it's a political act/tactic, but that's not necessarily a bad thing
it's bad if it's JUST a political tactic
but i will certainly not fault a black man not falling for the okeydoke

 

[lapaz]

Ok, so the way it goes, it's something like this...

... if someone brought your ancestors hundreds of years ago as slaves to this land, and for the next 350 years oppressed your ancestors, and even after slavery was made illegal your ancestors were segregated, persecuted, lynched, wrongfully incarcerated, harassed, gunned down/choked to death by the police, for decades, up until today, what's the last straw? Or is there ever a last straw?

And decency and fairness? LOL. You want decency and fairness now? Where has decency and fairness been for 350 years?

Now, I am not saying I agree or condone the looting. And sure, situations like this are the perfect environment for instigators. However, I understand that there is a boiling point when one just can't take anymore, and one just lashes out...what's there to lose.

I don't know if you watched the video I posted or not, the one from Trevor Noah. Your probably should watch it if you didn't. I think he is right... if you ask yourself "what good does rioting and looting do?", you should also ask yourself the question, "what good does not rioting and not looting do?"

I'm hispanic, and my ancestors have also been mistreated as well, but I'm not going to go out and start destroying property if I see a cop abuse and kill another hispanic, especially if I see that he has been charged appropriately. I might protest, but I won't become the criminal. Many hispanics have recently been mistreated, families separated, and some died on the border as they sought asylum, but I don't recall riots. I've been abused by the police, and I went to court and filed a protest. I don't know the outcome for those cops, but I didn't become a criminal. I get stopped by cops today, and I don't automatically expect to be mistreated. I act respectfully, and I've never had another problem. I've never seen American Indians looting and destroying properties in modern times, and they've been abused and almost exterminated, and have had more taken from them than anyone in America. Injustices for 350 years do not justify this behavior, because most of those injustices have been remediated, and there are appropriate approaches to seek further remediations. These riots are ridiculous, because the system may lead to justice, since the cop has been charged, and the others were fired. If warranted, the other cops could be charged, but the video evidence isn't enough to know anything more than that they were cowards. If nothing had been charged to Derick Chavin, then I would understand the continued anger, but what's the point? Do these people want the cop hanged without a trial? Do these people want anarchy? That isn't justice. This behavior doesn't help. These riots only suggest that our prisons need more prisoners.

 

[tomwaits]

I hope something like this can pass, but the Democrats and Republicans will probably not allow it.
If it does pass, I can see fewer people wanting to be police and hopefully a lot of police quit their jobs.
If we have a lot of police quit, hopefully that would lead to the understanding that the war on drugs must be ended due to lack of enforcement resources.
Ending the war on drugs is the best thing we can do to limit state power and drastically reduce police killings as well as targeting and incarceration of minorities, not to mention the reduction in spending on that stupid failed war.

 

[St. Geezy]

I'm hispanic, and my ancestors have also been mistreated as well, but I'm not going to go out and start destroying property if I see a cop abuse and kill another hispanic, especially if I see that he has been charged appropriately. I might protest, but I won't become the criminal. Many hispanics have recently been mistreated, families separated, and some died on the border as they sought asylum, but I don't recall riots. I've been abused by the police, and I went to court and filed a protest. I don't know the outcome for those cops, but I didn't become a criminal. I get stopped by cops today, and I don't automatically expect to be mistreated. I act respectfully, and I've never had another problem. I've never seen American Indians looting and destroying properties in modern times, and they've been abused and almost exterminated, and have had more taken from them than anyone in America. Injustices for 350 years do not justify this behavior, because most of those injustices have been remediated, and there are appropriate approaches to seek further remediations. These riots are ridiculous, because the system may lead to justice, since the cop has been charged, and the others were fired. If warranted, the other cops could be charged, but the video evidence isn't enough to know anything more than that they were cowards. If nothing had been charged to Derick Chavin, then I would understand the continued anger, but what's the point? Do these people want the cop hanged without a trial? Do these people want anarchy? That isn't justice. This behavior doesn't help. These riots only suggest that our prisons need more prisoners.

This has been tried.

And one of the things that's most frustrating for me about this whole thing is people are acting like there was a nationwide Zoom meeting in which all black people were a part of to plan and coordinate riots.

No, from what I see on my TV screen, it is a mixture of all races fed-up not just about the police brutality, but racism in general. Hell, last night on the DC and NY live protest/police standoff coverage, it seemed like it was 80% white people out there.

When someone tries to pin these riots all on black people, for me, it shows their true colors.

The country is 76% white and about 13% black. That is about 40,000,000 black people compared to maybe 30,000 out there truly causing havoc, if that many. Don't pin the plight and reaction of many on the actions of such a small sample size of people, people who in their own right are dealing with the frustration in their own way, and with allies from other races backing them up.

It boggles my mind just how people can be more upset about the effect than the cause in these instances. This country was literally built on revolutionary behavior like this, but when we look back in our history books, those people are looked at as heroes. Do you think the Sons of Liberty were evil when they caused over $2 million worth of property damage during a fight for what they believed was right? What if these are our modern day heroes that are the origin of a racial revolution and are setting the stage for a final battle against inequality?

 

[lapaz]

This has been tried.

And one of the things that's most frustrating for me about this whole thing is people are acting like there was a nationwide Zoom meeting in which all black people were a part of to plan and coordinate riots.

No, from what I see on my TV screen, it is a mixture of all races fed-up not just about the police brutality, but racism in general. Hell, last night on the DC and NY live protest/police standoff coverage, it seemed like it was 80% white people out there.

When someone tries to pin these riots all on black people, for me, it shows their true colors.

The country is 76% white and about 13% black. That is about 40,000,000 black people compared to maybe 30,000 out there truly causing havoc, if that many. Don't pin the plight and reaction of many on the actions of such a small sample size of people, people who in their own right are dealing with the frustration in their own way, and with allies from other races backing them up.

It boggles my mind just how people can be more upset about the effect than the cause in these instances. This country was literally built on revolutionary behavior like this, but when we look back in our history books, those people are looked at as heroes. Do you think the Sons of Liberty were evil when they caused over $2 million worth of property damage during a fight for what they believed was right? What if these are our modern day heroes that are the origin of a racial revolution and are setting the stage for a final battle against inequality?

Who were these rioters fighting when they broke into stores to steal and pillage? What justice were they seeking? They were seeking to take advantage of the situation under the guise of being mad over past injustices. It amazes me that people can't be upset about both the killing and the subsequent fake outrage "expressed" by looters and vandals. It does no cause any good to protect and defend the criminals in their midst.

 

[Tapxe]

the war on drugs must be ended due to lack of enforcement resources.
Ending the war on drugs is the best thing we can do to limit state power and drastically reduce police killings as well as targeting and incarceration of minorities, not to mention the reduction in spending on that stupid failed war.

I can support this. It's time to turn to treatment and education. We can use taxation of the substances to cover costs.

 

[St. Geezy]

Who were these rioters fighting when they broke into stores to steal and pillage? What justice were they seeking? They were seeking to take advantage of the situation under the guise of being mad over past injustices. It amazes me that people can't be upset about both the killing and the subsequent fake outrage "expressed" by looters and vandals. It does no cause any good to protect and defend the criminals in their midst.

It is not condoned, and is wrong, but lets not pretend that your posts are geared to be that you're merely "upset about the killing and also upset about the protest."

It doesn't take much to look at your posting history in these threads. You literally have on blinders, trying to pretend like this guy maybe did this on accident.

People being arrested frequently complain. Only the cop with the knee on his neck would know how much pressure he is putting. How do you know he pressed down harder after he said he couldn't breathe? Also, the autopsy said he didn't die of asphyxiation, so he obviously could still breathe. That doesn't excuse the cop. I think he killed the man by being reckless, and had no justification to hold him down for so long, but it doesn't mean he meant to kill him. 3rd degree murder is the right charge.

I think shooting someone in the chest is highly likely to kill someone. Pressing down on someone's neck with your knee can kill a person, so I don't excuse it. I think it was reckless, and he should've known that he might be killing Floyd, but I don't think we can be sure that he meant to kill Floyd. That's why I think 3rd degree is the right charge.

Something else your post does below is try to pin the riots all on one race, by segmenting out injustices of certain races in which that specific race did not end up protesting or rioting. Never mind the fact that the images show that people of ALL races are fighting, a large percentage of whom are white, and many of whom are fighting for racial equality period, including people that fall into these groups you decided to separate out from the black people protesting and rioting.

I'm hispanic, and my ancestors have also been mistreated as well, but I'm not going to go out and start destroying property if I see a cop abuse and kill another hispanic, especially if I see that he has been charged appropriately. I might protest, but I won't become the criminal. Many hispanics have recently been mistreated, families separated, and some died on the border as they sought asylum, but I don't recall riots. I've been abused by the police, and I went to court and filed a protest. I don't know the outcome for those cops, but I didn't become a criminal. I get stopped by cops today, and I don't automatically expect to be mistreated. I act respectfully, and I've never had another problem. I've never seen American Indians looting and destroying properties in modern times, and they've been abused and almost exterminated, and have had more taken from them than anyone in America.

People like you that turn this into a "Look at what all those black people are doing" thing while ignoring the cause are a significant part of the problem, and you don't even realize it.

You point out a few clips of people of one race doing bad things, while ignoring countless clips of other races doing the same behaviors. None of it is right, but at the end of the day, the focus needs to be on the cause rather than the effect. The effect you see on TV is such a small subset minority, and that subset is comprised of people from all races that are tired of this crap in our country.

 

[tomwaits]

I can support this. It's time to turn to treatment and education. We can use taxation of the substances to cover costs.

Just need to be sure that the taxation is not to a point that the black market still exists like the New York cigarette tax did.
Or don't add any taxes and take a fraction of the huge War on Drugs funding to go towards treatment and education.

 

[RazorOye]

Injustices for 350 years do not justify this behavior, because most of those injustices have been remediated, and there are appropriate approaches to seek further remediations.

This is incorrect. It's a very short-sighted view that only serves to mitigate the impact those decisions have on today.

Calhoun made an address in 1848 - prior to 1865 - that still rings true today, part of the political strategy of the day in his speech on the Oregon Bill.

Before America was a nation, whites were explicitly and solely given land and that land ownership continues to impact today. Actual possession of the land and generational wealth. Take a long, hard look at Virgina history and law and codified racism and the impact it has on today.

Have we made progress? Sure. But the moment someone breaks out "But 350 years ago" I don't give that any more credence than someone who begins their sentence with "I have a black friend" - there is going to be default skepticism. And with good reason.

The belief that Africans were less than humans shaped laws whose legacies existed in the Civil Rights Era, and still exist in practices today - even when it's illegal, acc to law. It's not housing discrimination doesn't happen today simply because it's illegal.

The belief that Africans were less intelligent than whites because of their cranial capacity existed - as scientific belief - long past Samuel Morton.

The belief that blacks are more violent than whites existed in the early 20th century widely known fact and continues to this day.

Northern cities packed blacks into ghettos based on racist beliefs when those same blacks fled the Jim Crow South to the industrialized North, looking for opportunity - and found hostility there. They found hate and discrimination and redlining. This population density led to a lot of mass incarceration.

Nixon specifically targeted blacks - not any other ethnicity - in an attempt to portray them as dangerous drug users and violent offenders. And this became codified law and drove policing procedures for two generations. And still happens today.

Educational segregation existed loooooong after Emancipation, and had to be forcibly ended by the Fed because some states refused to comply. And Northern cities segregated their schools and continue to, and educational equity is an illusion and without a sound education, there is no progress, no hope.

All of a sudden, we're not talking about 1619. We're not talking about 1865. We're talking about 1848. And 1889. And 1915. And 1935. And 1955. And 1968. And 1975. And 1987. And 1996. And 2001. And 2015. And 2020.

And we'll be talking about it in 2021.

How much longer after that?

Who knows.

But dates will continue to add up past 2021 the more we try to act like 1865 came and racism went.

 

[St. Geezy]

Posted this in the riot thread, but this is probably the more appropriate home.

Something very fishy is going on here.



Since when do EMTs where bullet proof vests? Since when do they not do any preliminary checks before arriving and immediately putting someone onto a gurney, in such an un-careful way?

 

[Saint_Ward]

Not sure if already posted..

George Floyd cop Chauvin had 18 complaints against him before fatal arrest

FORMER cop Derek Chauvin had 18 previous complaints against him before the fatal arrest of George Floyd, according to the police department. Only two of the complaints were “closed with disci…

www.the-sun.com

Also, interesting note, per the article court papers show a police officer alleges Chauvin ignored his request to get off the victims neck.

 

[Grumpy Old Manatee]

It is my understanding that most EMS systems do not provide vests to EMTs; however, the do allow for an individual to purchase a "soft type" vest for personal protection. Most systems will offer some sort of partial reimbursement to individuals that choose to purchase and wear the vest while on duty.

Link from a 2017 story:

Paramedics sound alarm about assaults

Ask any former or current paramedic or EMT about the job and you may get a response you were not expecting. Many have stories of being slapped, punched, and kicked, and maybe worse.

www.kare11.com

From 2019 in Boston:

‘Enough Is Enough': EMTs Sound the Alarm After Ambulance Stabbing

Bob Lord remembers it was like being in a dream. Lord and his partner were transporting a woman to Massachusetts General Hospital to undergo a psychiatric examination. As soon as he came out of the tunnel heading downtown, Lord heard violent cries in the back of his ambulance.

www.nbcboston.com

Several other states also allow for EMTs to wear vests if they so choose.

 

[SystemShock]

I'm hispanic, and my ancestors have also been mistreated as well, but I'm not going to go out and start destroying property if I see a cop abuse and kill another hispanic, especially if I see that he has been charged appropriately. I might protest, but I won't become the criminal. Many hispanics have recently been mistreated, families separated, and some died on the border as they sought asylum, but I don't recall riots. I've been abused by the police, and I went to court and filed a protest. I don't know the outcome for those cops, but I didn't become a criminal. I get stopped by cops today, and I don't automatically expect to be mistreated. I act respectfully, and I've never had another problem. I've never seen American Indians looting and destroying properties in modern times, and they've been abused and almost exterminated, and have had more taken from them than anyone in America. Injustices for 350 years do not justify this behavior, because most of those injustices have been remediated, and there are appropriate approaches to seek further remediations. These riots are ridiculous, because the system may lead to justice, since the cop has been charged, and the others were fired. If warranted, the other cops could be charged, but the video evidence isn't enough to know anything more than that they were cowards. If nothing had been charged to Derick Chavin, then I would understand the continued anger, but what's the point? Do these people want the cop hanged without a trial? Do these people want anarchy? That isn't justice. This behavior doesn't help. These riots only suggest that our prisons need more prisoners.

Are you comparing the Hispanic experience in the U.S. with the African American experience in the U.S.? Because if you are, you are way, way off. If I were African American, I'd be insulted you did that. I started to type different things in response to that, but I just couldn't find the words to properly address such an inane comment.

And you talk about justice?

Wow.

Edit: what @Oye said.