Hillary: Experienced??? (1 Viewer)

[Webmeistro]

I suppose Bill Gates' wife must be way overdue for a CEO position at Google. After all, she's been married to him for over a decade and was an employee at Microsoft.

It is about as routine as it gets for the spouse of an executive to show their face at official functions. Doesn't mean any of them are qualified to be an executive.

 

[blackadder]

I've gotten to the point where it's hard for me to listen to or read anything that Clinton says. I don't mind a candidate pointing contrasting views or experience. I even expect a little embellishment. But she is throwing flat out lies in my view. Every time she makes a statement, it forces me to run and do research to find out what, if any of what she is saying is true. Her claim of 35 years of experience doesn't add up. She did support NAFTA, despite her denials. Clinton has no experience answering a 3 AM call in a crisis and the list goes on. Unfortunately the majority of mainstream media has gone from news reporting to fight promoting. They're quick to report on any punch thrown by a candidate, but don't report on whether or not the statements are accurate.

Most of the 3am calls to the White House in the Clinton era were Bill's booty calls...

But I agree with everything in your post.

 

[Comus]

This tells me just how much effort you put into research and educating yourself on the facts. C'mon, you can do better, and don't you think you owe it to yourself?

She's now on her 8th year as a US Senator, and that followed 8 years in the West Wing (not pillow talk). A simple google search should provide enough reading on her experience to fill your weekend. Of course, if all you're really interested in is reveling in a fantasy, that's fine too.

If she claims 8 years 'transitive experience' in the White House with Bill, does she owe up to her exeperience of sleeping with a woman in the Oval office?


Some one MUST have mentioned this already...

 

[Jazzbo]

Most of the 3am calls to the White House in the Clinton era were Bill's booty calls...

:hehehmn:

 

[Sabine]

The 8 years of the "West Wing" as you put it gives zero credence to hang her hat on.

Your idea of experience is different from mine. Using your theorem of experience, Laura Bush is experienced enough to run for President too.

You're not comparing Laura Bush's role in the White House to Hillary Clinton's, are you? Surely not, because that would be as misinformed a position as anyone could take. FYI, the West Wing is not where you would normally find the office of the president's spouse.

I find it interesting that today so many refuse to credit Hillary Clinton with any WH experience, when only a decade ago many insisted that Bill was nothing more than a front man for Hillary's administration. It's the "lazy Mexican stealing our jobs" Do-Si-Do.

 

[Sabine]

If she claims 8 years 'transitive experience' in the White House with Bill, does she owe up to her exeperience of sleeping with a woman in the Oval office?

Some one MUST have mentioned this already...

I recall the "Hillary is a lesbian" rumors that peaked after she became the first US president's spouse to march in a gay pride parade and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell era. I don't buy it, but more than that I just don't care whether she is or isn't.

 

[Comus]

You're not comparing Laura Bush's role in the White House to Hillary Clinton's, are you? Surely not, because that would be as misinformed a position as anyone could take. FYI, the West Wing is not where you would normally find the office of the president's spouse.

I find it interesting that today so many refuse to credit Hillary Clinton with any WH experience, when only a decade ago many insisted that Bill was nothing more than a front man for Hillary's administration. It's the "lazy Mexican stealing our jobs" Do-Si-Do.

I'm liberal and never thought Bill was a front for Hillary. Some Hillary haters did, but that was just a political jab, like saying McCain looks like the Crypt Keeper.

She was more active than Laura Bush in politics for sure, but that's more about her using the opportunity rather than being elected. She got shut down within the first year when she stepped on too many toes.

Angelina Jolie is more politically active than Jennifer, but I wouldn't say she did a great job in Oceans 11.


I really think in her heart she believes she was partially elected when Bill was. Honestly, he probably won re-election by a lesser margin because he was with her.

 

[Comus]

I recall the "Hillary is a lesbian" rumors that peaked after she became the first US president's spouse to march in a gay pride parade and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell era. I don't buy it, but more than that I just don't care whether she is or isn't.

OK. I don't even understand that.

I was making the conncetion that if you want to use' transitive experience' - all things Bill Clinton accomplished things did she can take credit for - then she would also have to take credit for sleeping with Monica Lewinsky. The good with the bad.


It was an example of how that piggybacking arguement can get you into trouble.

Super-conversly, I am not saying Bill actually performed any piggy-backing but it could look that way if you walked in on it.

 

[jpcdolphan]

You're not comparing Laura Bush's role in the White House to Hillary Clinton's, are you? Surely not, because that would be as misinformed a position as anyone could take. FYI, the West Wing is not where you would normally find the office of the president's spouse.

I find it interesting that today so many refuse to credit Hillary Clinton with any WH experience, when only a decade ago many insisted that Bill was nothing more than a front man for Hillary's administration. It's the "lazy Mexican stealing our jobs" Do-Si-Do.

She was more politically active than Laura Bush (who isn't at all) but just because she had an office in the West Wing doesn't mean she had a hand in shaping every major policy decision during the Administration. She got that office because the wife of the President of the United States wanted one...who was going to be the one to tell her "no dice"? If Laura Bush insisted on the same, it would have happened (and for all I know, Laura Bush does have a West Wing office...I'm not sure).

I've never heard anyone seriously suggest that Bill was some sort of front for President Hillary. The closest I've heard to that is the whole "Hillarycare" jab regarding her failed health care proposal early in his administration...the one act of policy that she is known to have had a leading role in crafting.

Sorry but, West Wing office or not, being the spouse of the President does not allow one to claim a bonus 8 years of White House experience. I'm sure that Bill sought her counsel on tough decisions but how does that make her any different than any other First Lady?

 

[wamland]

Wow Hillary has a load of experience???

"Pressed in a CNN interview this week for specific examples of foreign policy experience that has prepared her for an international crisis, Clinton claimed that she "helped to bring peace" to Northern Ireland and negotiated with Macedonia to open up its border to refugees from Kosovo. She also cited "standing up" to the Chinese government on women's rights and a one-day visit she made to Bosnia following the Dayton peace accords.

Earlier in the campaign, she and her husband claimed that she had advocated on behalf of a U.S. military intervention in Rwanda to stop the genocide there.

'Ancillary' to process

But her involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process was primarily to encourage activism among women's groups there, a contribution that the lead U.S. negotiator described as "helpful" but that an Irish historian who has written extensively about the conflict dismissed as "ancillary" to the peace process.

The Macedonian government opened its border to refugees the day before Clinton arrived to meet with government leaders. And her mission to Bosnia was a one-day visit in which she was accompanied by performers Sheryl Crow and Sinbad, as well as her daughter, Chelsea, according to the commanding general who hosted her."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-experiencemar07,1,394674.story

And about that Ireland trip????

"Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.
"I don't know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill [Clinton] going around," he said. Her recent statements about being deeply involved were merely "the sort of thing people put in their canvassing leaflets" during elections. "She visited when things were happening, saw what was going on, she can certainly say it was part of her experience. I don't want to rain on the thing for her but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/07/nobel-winner-hillarys-n_n_90505.html

 

[gavinj]

"And her mission to Bosnia was a one-day visit in which she was accompanied by performers Sheryl Crow and Sinbad, as well as her daughter, Chelsea, according to the commanding general who hosted her."

$$$

If Obama and Hilarity can't get it done, there's always hope for a Sinbad/Sheryl Crow ticket in 2012 based on their extensive diplomatic experience, I guess.

 

[Comus]

Did you know Sheryl Crow actually pedaled 3k of the Tour de France win?

 

[Sabine]

OK. I don't even understand that.

I was making the conncetion that if you want to use' transitive experience' - all things Bill Clinton accomplished things did she can take credit for - then she would also have to take credit for sleeping with Monica Lewinsky. The good with the bad.

Oh sorry, I thought you were referring to the rumors from The Right's Brigade over Clinton's gay rights stance.

Re what you were really talking about and in regard to Clinton including in her "35 years of experience" the 8 years in the WH, I don't buy Obama's rhetoric that if we are to give her credit for all the good things accomplished during the Clinton administration then she must accept blame for the bad things that came from that administration too. That doesn't fly for me. Of course, she gained some valuable experience there. That would be true to some degree even if she had played only a "traditional First Lady" role, which she didn't.

She was more involved than any president's spouse in US history, and Bill Clinton was up front about the prominent role she would play during his "Two for the price of one" campaign. Still, he made the final decisions on matters that were within his power as president - not her. She had some highly publicized assignments from him and her own interests and projects, but from what I remember and have read she was involved in varying degrees in just about every facet of his presidency - foreign affairs, budgets, education, welfare, health care, labor, housing, etc. She was in cabinet meetings and policy discussions. And, still with limits during those 8 years, it's pretty valuable experience - far more so than any experience that Obama can bring to the table, which is why he has to attempt to minimize or discredit those years.

The former Secretary of Labor said that HC was BC's first advisor, but in the end it was Bill Clinton's call, his decisions, his policies. On one hand, the Obama camp would like us to write off Hillary Clinton's "First Lady" years as amounting to nothing more substantial than picking out the china pattern for dinners with visiting dignitaries. Clearly (to anyone who remembers or cares to research it), it was far more than that. However, it is equally true and obvious that there were certainly limits to her role in the WH, so the Obama camp's claim that it should be an all or nothing scorecard is just absurd in my opinion. Further, that position seems to disregard so many other factors and players (think Newt Gingrich and posse) that were at play during that time. I don't think Obama is so stupid or naive that he doesn't realize the effects of those forces on the Clinton administration - I think he's just hoping we are.

 

[jpcdolphan]

Re what you were really talking about and in regard to Clinton including in her "35 years of experience" the 8 years in the WH, I don't buy Obama's rhetoric that if we are to give her credit for all the good things accomplished during the Clinton administration then she must accept blame for the bad things that came from that administration too. That doesn't fly for me. Of course, she gained some valuable experience there. That would be true to some degree even if she had played only a "traditional First Lady" role, which she didn't.

It seems like you want something just as unreasonable, though. You seem amazed that Obama is taking issue with Hillary's cherrypicking. She claims all of the "good" policies but disassociates herself from the "bad" ones. If she was as engaged as you claim, that's more than fair. You're implying that she wasn't simply an adviser...you brought up Bill's "two for the price of one" quote.

Either she was deep into policy making (to gain that much vaunted experience) and therefore has to answer for the mistakes as well as take credit for the successes or she was simply Bill's wife and confidant (thereby excusing her from policy mistakes but negating any "experience"). Which one is it? It may seem overly simplistic to you but sometimes things really are that cut and dried.

Experience isn't simply sitting in cabinet meetings and taking notes. It's about making decisions and being accountable for them. By your own admission, it seems, Hillary was not.

It seems she is a little more Rossalyn Carter (who also sat in on Cabinet meetings) or Nancy Reagan (who wielded great influence in her husband's White House) than Edith Wilson or Eleanor Roosevelt.

 

[RABDOG]

hillary kills me with the "i've got experience" line...she has none....she is with this "i will be ready on day 1 " b.s., when in reality none of the 3 canidates will be ready on day 1 because it is impossible. the only way you are ready on day one is if you have been the president before...now how quickly you adjust to the presidentcy is the key.....lol ..old "w" never did adjust, he's still lost 7 years later