How did I miss this story? (Ahmaud Arbery shooting in Georgia)[MERGED] (5 Viewers)

Sandman

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Here is the story with the video. It shows a man getting shot and killed.


This happened back in February. I didn't hear anything about this. The local DA initially did not want to charge the shooters (one was a former police officer). The shooters claim that they were trying to make a citizen's arrest, saying Arbery fit the discription of someone suspected of committing a string of robberies. Arbery wrestles with one of the gunmen and is shot dead in the street. The original DA says that it was self-defense at that point.

I call b.s. on that. This guy is out for a run, is ambushed by a group of white guys with guns playing cop. His actions were completely reasonable, and theirs were not. Arbery had no stolen material on him, and according to his family, he was out for a run. These men need to go to jail for a long time.
 
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Outbackjack

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Is it humility for an unaffected party to tell affected parties what is/isn’t racist?
I’d offer that’s the opposite of humility
That’s true. I agree 100%.

I would imagine this was a racist act.
But I’m not in the head of the two loonies, so I don’t know. Neither do you. Or anyone except the two loonies.

Therefore the only people qualified to say if this is racist are those two, that’s it.

What I do know are these two idiots don’t represent a race of people any more than the kindest guy in the world doesn’t represent a race.

I would think we agree that they are not good people though.
 

Outbackjack

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Yea, this is pretty much how racists try to explain away racism.
What the fork are you talking about?
Is it not a fact that 2 white guys killed this black guy?
That is a fact.

Another fact is those two white guys don’t represent the white race. They are not a blip on the radar of the white race. They make up .000000008% of the white race.


You are in essence calling me a racist because of.....I’m not even sure what blanket statement you are trying to shoot for here.

It’s an unfortunate issue when people blankety refer to “racism” in vague terms, as you did to me.

Your quote.....”This is pretty much how racists try to explain away racism”.....you’ve got to be kidding me??????
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Another fact is those two white guys don’t represent the white race. They are not a blip on the radar of the white race. They make up .000000008% of the white race.
Here’s part of this issue
The above is not a fact
It might be true (it also might not be true)
Your argument eats its tail
You want the small sample size to indicate that these two guys are outliers, but you have no evidence aside from a very big number of white people
You are not qualifying the large group aside from implicitly assuming such a large group can’t be racist

Everything may be as you say (2 guys are an outlier) but you’re certainly not proving it with facts
 

dtc

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Yea, this is pretty much how racists try to explain away racism.

Yes, it is, but it's also pretty freaking true.

Everything he said is right except that these guys were only arrested because the video was sent out and were likely treated differently because of their personal relationship and racial bias.

Racism was involved, but the overwhelming majority of whites and blacks are normal, decent folks.

Events like this are what illustrates the deep-seated racism that exists just barely beneath the surface in far more of us than anyone wants to acknowledge, but it doesn't mean that everyone is a hateful bigot.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Racism was involved, but the overwhelming majority of whites and blacks are normal, decent folks.
ok, good, i'm glad you're wading into this territory bc i think you're les likely to take offense (not bc others are more easily offended but bc they might perceive the question from me as attacking and ths get defensive and i don't think you would)
ANYWAY
where do bystanders fit in with this?

eg, we've seen dozens of videos of Karens verbally attacking families of hispanic descent in Walmarts or the like, and you usually see 20-30 people gathered around, some taking videos, but not intervening - where do the bystanders fall on the racist <> normal, decent fold continuum?

it's essentially the same question that comes up when someone talks about bad cops - saying the % of bad cops is tiny. the retort is obvious bc clearly there are some 'not bad' cops who let the bad cops operate

are bystanders enablers or just a neutral party?
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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eg, we've seen dozens of videos of Karens verbally attacking families of hispanic descent in Walmarts or the like, and you usually see 20-30 people gathered around, some taking videos, but not intervening - where do the bystanders fall on the racist <> normal, decent fold continuum?

are bystanders enablers or just a neutral party?
It's impossible to say... there's something called the bystander effect. When there are multiple people watching something that everyone believes is wrong - each individual is less likely to act. People are more likely to act to stop something wrong if they are alone, probably b/c if you are in a group at some subconscious level you believe that someone else will do it.

So, what you're seeing when you see a bunch of people standing around while someone is doing something racist is caused by the bystander effect, which neither proves nor disproves the premise of racism in those bystanders.
 

SystemShock

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This case is so simple.
Ok.
It’s not whites being racist.
It is those two whites being racist.

It’s these backwoods wannabe vigilantes being complete idiots.
It is these backwwods wannabe vigilantes being racist.

They don’t represent the white race.
They are members of the white race, but aren’t the poster child.
Straw man much?

Why so defensive?
 

Saintamaniac

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What the fork are you talking about?
Is it not a fact that 2 white guys killed this black guy?
That is a fact.

Another fact is those two white guys don’t represent the white race. They are not a blip on the radar of the white race. They make up .000000008% of the white race.


You are in essence calling me a racist because of.....I’m not even sure what blanket statement you are trying to shoot for here.

It’s an unfortunate issue when people blankety refer to “racism” in vague terms, as you did to me.

Your quote.....”This is pretty much how racists try to explain away racism”.....you’ve got to be kidding me??????
Hey man, I'm not going to call you a racist because quite simply, I don't know you or anything about you. Your response might be received as a reasoned explanation for what transpired. On the surface it does look like it was two jack-wad backwoods stereotypical white racists doing white racist things.

However, when you take in the totality of the steps that the DA and local police department took to try to wash it under the rug, you have to see racism involved to do so. We are to believe that attorneys trained in the law and police departments charged with enforcing the law looked at the same video we saw and determined that there was no reason to arrest the father and son immediately.

We are also to believe that had the same act been committed by two black guys hunting down a white jogger and caught on camera doing so would receive the same treatment from the DA and the local police department. Do you believe that to be true? If you don't, then why? These people put their careers on the line to protect these two pieces of crap. Why do you suppose they did that?

Had the video not been released in an attempt to vindicate the pieces of crap, they would not be sitting in jail now. That's not two idiots. That's systemic.
 

sfidc3

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I know someone will say.....corrupt politics, wouldn’t have been sniffed if no video.
That’s possibly true, and possibly not. No one knows for sure either way, because it was released, and they were arrested.
You totally lost me here....No one knows for sure? You want to put some odds on what would have happened if there was no video?

Corrupt politics? More like systematic racism....which I hope is exposed and all involved get what they deserve....
 

Outbackjack

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Ok.

It is those two whites being racist.


It is these backwwods wannabe vigilantes being racist.


Straw man much?

Why so defensive?
Fair question.
It’s not defensive.....it’s in response to the post a few above mine that simply said “Whites gonna white”
 

Outbackjack

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You totally lost me here....No one knows for sure? You want to put some odds on what would have happened if there was no video?

Corrupt politics? More like systematic racism....which I hope is exposed and all involved get what they deserve....
You can think, but you don’t know. And it’s correctly stated, no one does know.
You can assume, but you don’t know for sure.
 

Outbackjack

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Hey man, I'm not going to call you a racist because quite simply, I don't know you or anything about you. Your response might be received as a reasoned explanation for what transpired. On the surface it does look like it was two jack-wad backwoods stereotypical white racists doing white racist things.

However, when you take in the totality of the steps that the DA and local police department took to try to wash it under the rug, you have to see racism involved to do so. We are to believe that attorneys trained in the law and police departments charged with enforcing the law looked at the same video we saw and determined that there was no reason to arrest the father and son immediately.

We are also to believe that had the same act been committed by two black guys hunting down a white jogger and caught on camera doing so would receive the same treatment from the DA and the local police department. Do you believe that to be true? If you don't, then why? These people put their careers on the line to protect these two pieces of crap. Why do you suppose they did that?

Had the video not been released in an attempt to vindicate the pieces of crap, they would not be sitting in jail now. That's not two idiots. That's systemic.
Yeah I get that.
Here’s the thing, I’m so jaded by second hand stuff (media portrayals....such as the local law/DA in this case).... that I don’t believe anything second hand anymore.
And it would “appear”.....but we don’t know.
 

Saintamaniac

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Yeah I get that.
Here’s the thing, I’m so jaded by second hand stuff (media portrayals....such as the local law/DA in this case).... that I don’t believe anything second hand anymore.
And it would “appear”.....but we don’t know.
We "don't know" about a number of things that we do actually know. For example, we "don't know" that OJ killed 2 people but we "know". We "don't know" that the refs didn't see the PI in the Saints playoff game but we "know". We "don't know" a lot of things that we actually "know". Second hand info should always be taken with a grain of salt. However, in this case, based on the video and the actions or lack thereof taken by the DA and the local police, we "don't know" but we "know."
 

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