How good is Loomis? (Regarding projected future cap space) (1 Viewer)

[SuperRemo]

Like the earlier poster said as brilliant as Payton is in the Offense, he is equally incompetent at fielding a defensive team....

In the staff, scouting, drafting, evaluating talent, etc.....

Just horrific in 7 years.

 

[birdog]

But it wasn't. The money aspect was the point of your post. If you meant otherwise you did an incredibly awful job of expressing your thoughts. Let me quote your first sentence,



That's what we call a "thesis statement". It's suggests the entire point of your post is that anytime you have a good offense it takes money away for the defense, implying that that hamstrings the defense.

Which of course is patently absurd. Not just more money has been devoted to the defense, but more free agent signings and more draft picks. Your post was therefore completely divorced from reality.

I can only recommend rephrasing, maybe typing words that you actually mean instead of typing things and then claiming that's not what you meant after the fact,

Just friendly advice.

No...I take the blame for it....in retrospect that wasn't accurate, and I realized that when I saw the numbers. When I wrote the post all I could see was the contracts of Brees, Colston, Grubbs and Evans....thinking the offense probably gets more than the D. I was surprised to see that wasn't the case. That's all.

 

[LSSpam]

Like the earlier poster said as brilliant as Payton is in the Offense, he is equally incompetent at fielding a defensive team....

In the staff, scouting, drafting, evaluating talent, etc.....

Just horrific in 7 years.

Is "horrific" the right word?

2006 - 13th
2007 - 25th
2008 - 27th
2009 - 19th
2010 - 7th
2011 - 13th
2012 - 31st

That's our ranking in points allowed. Certainly it's not "good", last year in particular can be described as "horrific", but under Sean Payton we have fielded some pretty good defenses, particularly in 2006, 2010, and 2009 (when turnovers can counted). The 2011 defense wasn't bad either until the 49ers game.

 

[SuperRemo]

First round defensive picks
2008-Ellis
2009-Jenkins
2010-Robinson
2011-Jordan

I'd say right now only Jordan will get a 2nd contract. Thats very mediocre for a 1st round draft....

 

[LSSpam]

First round defensive picks
2008-Ellis
2009-Jenkins
2010-Robinson
2011-Jordan

I'd say right now only Jordan will get a 2nd contract. Thats very mediocre for a 1st round draft....

Well that's interesting. Ok. Well if it makes you feel any better

2005 - Jammal Brown (not SPs but we haven't had a lot of first round offensive draft picks )
2006 - Reggie Bush
2007 - Robert Meachem
2011 - Mark Ingram

And Mark Ingram is the only one with a shot at a second contract . Sean Payton clearly doesn't know offense. Compelling argument sir, touché.

 

[birdog]

Well that's interesting. Ok. Well if it makes you feel any better

2005 - Jammal Brown (not SPs but we haven't had a lot of first round offensive draft picks )
2006 - Reggie Bush
2007 - Robert Meachem
2011 - Mark Ingram

And Mark Ingram is the only one with a shot at a second contract . Sean Payton clearly doesn't know offense. Compelling argument sir, touché.

Fortunately, the draft does not end with the picks in the first rd.....Sean Payton's drafts are quite good in the middle rounds, offensively speaking.....defense?...now that's another story.

 

[LSSpam]

By the way, to be clear.

1) everyone was excited about Sedrick Ellis except those who wanted Glenn Dorsey more.

2) everyone loved the Jenkins pick, and thought he was a pro bowler just a year ago

3) everyone liked the Robinson pick, except those who thought we didn't need any more secondary help (especially after that amazing Jenkins pick!). So yeah. We don't need CBs.

4) Cam Jordan wasn't hated but probably the least favorite pick (he and Robinson were close) because they wanted a LB instead.

So lets recap. We don't need anymore CBs, Jenkins is amazing, Ellis was a great pick unless we can get Dorsey instead, and do we really need Cam Jordan?

Yep. Saintsreport has really earned the right to be critical with its collective wisdom.

 

[LSSpam]

Fortunately, the draft does not end with the picks in the first rd.....Sean Payton's drafts are quite good in the middle rounds, offensively speaking.....defense?...now that's another story.

Greg Williams put the 19th (super bowl year, so consider the turnovers), 7th, and 13th defense on the field.

Is that sufficient for you?

 

[birdog]

Greg Williams put the 19th (super bowl year, so consider the turnovers), 7th, and 13th defense on the field.

Is that sufficient for you?

Yet when it counted the most....GW's defense bowed out of the playoffs at first sight of adversity (playing away from home)......

so much for the 7th & 13th defense. Its nice to beat up on crappy teams in the regular season, but against good teams that GW defense wasn't as good as their record indicated.

 

[LSSpam]

Yet when it counted the most....GW's defense bowed out of the playoffs at first sight of adversity (playing away from home)......

so much for the 7th & 13th defense. Its nice to beat up on crappy teams in the regular season, but against good teams that GW defense wasn't as good as their record indicated.

**** happens. Single covering Vernon Davis late in the fourth was inexcusable (with Harper no less) but that hardly invalidates an entire season. It was a pretty good defense.

You can be angry and grumpy about it all you want, but that's why we got Ryan. To recreate what Greg Williams did which, frankly, was quite obviously sufficient for a Super Bowl. And Sean Payton/Loomis are clearly capable of providing the players for that.

Your pessimism is just not as compelling as that giant Super Bowl ring on Sean Payton's hand. I just don't think I'm going to buy your argument tonight,

 

[scott88]

I trust Loomis, but I sure wish Brees' contract didn't take up so much of the cap space

 

[birdog]

**** happens. Single covering Vernon Davis late in the fourth was inexcusable (with Harper no less) but that hardly invalidates an entire season. It was a pretty good defense.

You can be angry and grumpy about it all you want, but that's why we got Ryan. To recreate what Greg Williams did which, frankly, was quite obviously sufficient for a Super Bowl. And Sean Payton/Loomis are clearly capable of providing the players for that.

Your pessimism is just not as compelling as that giant Super Bowl ring on Sean Payton's hand. I just don't think I'm going to buy your argument tonight,

All I'm doing is trying to find out where it went wrong from being a decent defense to being so awful last year, essentially with a slightly better personnel.

Really is true...if you aren't getting any better, you're getting worse.

 

[LSSpam]

All I'm doing is trying to find out where it went wrong from being a decent defense to being so awful last year, essentially with a slightly better personnel.

Really is true...if you aren't getting any better, you're getting worse.

Well. Greg Williams gathered personal and invested in contracts that fit his defense, such as Harper, Jordan, Wilson, Vilma, etc

Then Spags came in and tried to build an entirely new defense. Such a thing would, normally take time. But Spags apparently lost command of the players and Payton came back impatient as all get out, so we're going back to a defensive coordinator similar to Williams (Ryan) who will, ideally, use the available personal similarly.

I would expect us to be in the 16 - 20 range on defense. With some luck we'll have a ton if turnovers too and it might be a Super Bowl year.

 

[birdog]

Well. Greg Williams gathered personal and invested in contracts that fit his defense, such as Harper, Jordan, Wilson, Vilma, etc

Then Spags came in and tried to build an entirely new defense. Such a thing would, normally take time. But Spags apparently lost command of the players and Payton came back impatient as all get out, so we're going back to a defensive coordinator similar to Williams (Ryan) who will, ideally, use the available personal similarly.

I would expect us to be in the 16 - 20 range on defense. With some luck we'll have a ton if turnovers too and it might be a Super Bowl year.

I sure hope you're right, Spam...I really do. there is but one place to go from here...UP!

But now while we're at it, I was one who liked the Spags hire. Although I never was a zone D believer, I had some faith in his ability to make it work. I was so disappointed. By week 3 I knew they hired the wrong guy. Every zone defense bears the label by lining up in a zone concept, initially. If there is no pressure on the QB, every zone D degenerates in a man defense......especially when the QB has time to wait for the receiver to run his route. That's why I don't believe in it. They say zone D, but what they really mean is zone D for the first 5 seconds.....after that, its no longer zone, it becomes man to man defense.

And the Saints lacked to most important factor in a zone D to work...speed. The other was to create pressure is blitz, but Spags didn't let his players to blitz. So his scheme was destined to fail, from the very beginning.

Now we have Rob Ryan, which is basically a continuation of the GW defense. I love the concept of the man to man D, especially that it is an attacking D with at least 8 men in the box for the most part. But it has its drawback. Excessive blitzing is doing more harm in the long run then good. We all know that. What I'm hoping is that with the new attacking style, Rob Ryan can also teach the DL how to beat their blockers, especially when they face single blockers. I'm pretty sure if they can develop certain personal technique in how to defeat blockers at the LOS, that in itself would do miracles to creating added pressure up-front.

Well, so much for my rant.....I hope I'm not too boring...

 

[0rion]

I don't know much about the cap stuff.....I'll be the first to admit that. Everyone says we're pushing our pains off to later years and we'll be paying for it at some point. To me, someone that admittedly doesn't know much about it, it feels like we're paying for it every year. It never feels like we have the cap space to get the really good free agents and it always feels like our draft picks are far enough down where we don't really get the talented first rounders. I guess the draft number is a good problem to have because it means you're finishing well every year. It just feels like we don't get to do much when it comes to adding talent to our roster. We get mediocre free agents and we have to put our money on sleeper picks in the draft. Just how it feels to me.