How Important Is Drafting a Tight End? (1 Viewer)

Whether you are satisfied with Fleener or not, our offense is just fine.

Either Fleener is adequate, or we don't really need much out of our TE.
 
While I certainly would like to see more out of Fleener, it's just not a priority.

Hooman is a very versatile TE as is Hill. Both can block/h-back/catch quite well.

I think having those two guys both injured and it being Fleener's first year hampered the TE production.

But, if Sean can't field a Super Bowl winning offense with Brees and this receiving corps, then I don't know what to say! (tongue in cheek, sort of....)
 
Mike Gesicki from Penn State is the guy we should get. He is a Jr but could decide to come out. Either way he would really fit our system.
 
Not ready to throw in the towel on Fleener just yet. But it's getting close. Come next September, he needs to be a top 5 TE. He has the tools, the QB, and the system. If 2017 is not his year, then we can start looking elsewhere.

Now I don't expect him to have Graham numbers, because there are a few more mouths to feed than when Jimmy was a Saint. I would hope that he becomes a weapon we can count on. Something along the lines of what Ben Watson gave us.

Right so this year was just one big experiemental year on offense because the payoff is better than just having a playoff appearance right? It makes Drew look cheap though.
 
It's insane to me that people are still holding out hope that Fleener will be the guy in 2017. He's an established vet at his peak...this is as good as he ever will be. This isn't a problem with the playbook (though Payton will certainly spin it that way over the offseason...again, with gullible Saintfan eating it up). This is a problem with ability. He is big enough and fast enough...he just doesn't have the mental make-up for the game. He's soft as baby poo, weak blocker, with mediocre hands, average at best route running, and absolutely no desire to win contested passes. Heck...we might as well just put Brandon Coleman out there. No seriously...he would be a better TE than Fleener, absolutely no question in my mind.

It was a bad, bad signing, and I can't see how anyone could argue. But with that established...what do we do with the guy? I think that it comes down to his worth and was he is owed. In my humble opinion...Fleener is a #2/3 TE. I think that he would be worth the contract of a #2/3 TE...which is roughly $1 million/year.

Per Spotrac:
2017: $7.5 million cap hit, $12.2 million dead money
2018: $8 million cap hit, $4.8 million dead money
2019: $9 million cap hit, $3.2 million dead money
2020: $9.1 million cap hit, $1.6 million dead money

So essentially...if we cut him this offseason...we would gain $33.6 million but lose $21.8 million due to dead money from 2017 until 2020...a net gain of $11.8 million...but we would lose $7.7 million from our cap for 2017. Ouch. That's not going to happen unless Fleener becomes a locker room cancer or something along those lines (see Galette).

If we cut him in 2018, we would gain $26.1 million but lose $9.6 million due to dead money from 2018 until 2020...a net gain of $16.5 million...and we would GAIN $3.2 million toward our 2018 cap. That's were the money's at.

So, in summary...Fleener has added to a long list of poor free agent signings made by the Saints...the Saints should cut him as soon as feasible...which will be in 2018. Until then, we hold our nose and hope for the best.

If a stud TE is available in the draft...Fleener in no way would hold the Saints back from making the selection. Shockey was much better than Fleener, when the Saints drafted Jimmy Graham.
 
I like Cole Hikutini out of Louisville...

If this dude's name is pronounced like it's spelled, I'd like to have him on the team just to say his name a bunch.

Hikutini and Hoomanawanui both at tight end at the same time? That'd be a killer combination that would leave the likes of Rondé Barber just calling their numbers when he's got our games. (Anything to shut that idiot up is a bonus to me...)

Don't forget that we've got Jake Stoneburner on the PS as well as that rookie from Air Force...and that's with Phillips on the active roster with Fleener. (That makes 6 TE's on the team already.)
 
It's insane to me that people are still holding out hope that Fleener will be the guy in 2017. He's an established vet at his peak...this is as good as he ever will be. This isn't a problem with the playbook (though Payton will certainly spin it that way over the offseason...again, with gullible Saintfan eating it up). This is a problem with ability. He is big enough and fast enough...he just doesn't have the mental make-up for the game. He's soft as baby poo, weak blocker, with mediocre hands, average at best route running, and absolutely no desire to win contested passes. Heck...we might as well just put Brandon Coleman out there. No seriously...he would be a better TE than Fleener, absolutely no question in my mind.

It was a bad, bad signing, and I can't see how anyone could argue. But with that established...what do we do with the guy? I think that it comes down to his worth and was he is owed. In my humble opinion...Fleener is a #2/3 TE. I think that he would be worth the contract of a #2/3 TE...which is roughly $1 million/year.

Per Spotrac:
2017: $7.5 million cap hit, $12.2 million dead money
2018: $8 million cap hit, $4.8 million dead money
2019: $9 million cap hit, $3.2 million dead money
2020: $9.1 million cap hit, $1.6 million dead money

So essentially...if we cut him this offseason...we would gain $33.6 million but lose $21.8 million due to dead money from 2017 until 2020...a net gain of $11.8 million...but we would lose $7.7 million from our cap for 2017. Ouch. That's not going to happen unless Fleener becomes a locker room cancer or something along those lines (see Galette).

If we cut him in 2018, we would gain $26.1 million but lose $9.6 million due to dead money from 2018 until 2020...a net gain of $16.5 million...and we would GAIN $3.2 million toward our 2018 cap.
That's were the money's at.

So, in summary...Fleener has added to a long list of poor free agent signings made by the Saints...the Saints should cut him as soon as feasible...which will be in 2018. Until then, we hold our nose and hope for the best.
You're incorrectly adding together all the individual years of dead money and cap savings for the years remaining on his contract. It doesn't work that way.

Each line for each year lists the dead money and the cap savings/cost for the duration of the contract if the player is cut that year... period. Adding them up is just wrong.

For example, if Fleener is cut pre-June 1st next year (2017), his dead money hit is $12.2M and the cap cost is $4.7M. Cap costs are shown using parentheses.

The $12.2M dead money hit is made up of his 2017 fully guaranteed salary of $5.8M and four years of $1.6M/year of his prorated signing bonus. ($12.2M = $5.8M+$1.6M+$1.6M+$1.6M+$1.6M)

Alternatively, let's assume that the Saints keep Fleener for all of the 2017 season but decide to cut him pre-June 1, 2018. In this case, his dead money hit is $4.8M and the cap savings is $3.2M. His dead money is simply three remaining years of his prorated signing bonus at $1.6M/year. ($4.8M = 3 x $1.6M).

The 2018 cap savings in ths case is $3.2M, which is the difference between his 2018 salary of $8M and his dead money hit of $4.8M. ($3.2M = $8M - 4.8M)

Make sense?
 
it is non important

WR wasn't important last year. As Brees ages, it's going to be important to surround him with even more talent. Michael Thomas and Brandin Cooks are both examples of guys drafted high when the Saints had flourishing offenses. But where would we be today without those two guys? If you're not getting better you're getting worse...especially with an aging QB.

TE is a void. We have Fleener, who is NOT good. We have Hill who isn't much better and has had trouble staying healthy. We also have Hoomanawanui, who's a weak receiver, strong blocker, but has also had difficulty staying healthy.

Much like having a do-it-all RB like Ingram and Hightower have been valuable to this offense...a do-it-all TE could also have a significant effect. It would improve our running game, which is going to be essential to keeping Brees healthy, and it would also add an additional target to take pressure off of Thomas and Snead underneath. Is it essential for the Saints to put up being passing totals? Probably not...but it could very well be the difference between wins and loses.

There are lots of good mid-round TEs available who fit the bill as good receiver-blockers. Jordan Legget is pretty impressive as a receiver and blocker. Jeremy Sprinkle is also intriguing...he's going to be a special inline blocker, and was underutilized in the passing game but appears to have some ability. Pharaoh Brown is another guy just oozing with ability...would step in day one and be the best receiving TE on our team.
 
You're incorrectly adding together all the individual years of dead money and cap savings for the years remaining on his contract. It doesn't work that way.

Each line for each year lists the dead money and the cap savings/cost for the duration of the contract if the player is cut that year... period. Adding them up is just wrong.

For example, if Fleener is cut pre-June 1st next year (2017), his dead money hit is $12.2M and the cap cost is $4.7M. Cap costs are shown using parentheses.

The $12.2M dead money hit is made up of his 2017 fully guaranteed salary of $5.8M and four years of $1.6M/year of his prorated signing bonus. ($12.2M = $5.8M+$1.6M+$1.6M+$1.6M+$1.6M)

Alternatively, let's assume that the Saints keep Fleener for all of the 2017 season but decide to cut him pre-June 1, 2018. In this case, his dead money hit is $4.8M and the cap savings is $3.2M. His dead money is simply three remaining years of his prorated signing bonus at $1.6M/year. ($4.8M = 3 x $1.6M).

The 2018 cap savings in ths case is $3.2M, which is the difference between his 2018 salary of $8M and his dead money hit of $4.8M. ($3.2M = $8M - 4.8M)

Make sense?

Thanks...that does make sense. Either way...2018 looks like a better time to cut than 2017.
 

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