How important is DT to the success of a defense?? (2 Viewers)

[morals99]

I have a very different opinion on DT's. You can make a case for any position being important, but I believe DT's are role players. If you got a big run stuffer at MLB you can have some rushing DT's like LaRoi Glover and John Randle...or if you have a smaller MLB you need to have the space eaters like Hollis Thomas, Grady Jackson, Norman Hand...etc. There are very few DT's in the league that can do both, Tommy Harris, Albert Haynesworth, Warren Sapp (in his prime) Sean Rodgers (when he wants to play)

So that being said the true dual threat DT is about as rare as a true shutdown corner. Dorsey and Ellis have potential to be those guys, but reality and odds show they will probably be one or the other.

If i'm building a defense and I have can have the best guy at any position GUARANTEED...i'm going to build in this order:

CB
DE
MLB
DT
S

 

[Guitarzan]

as the fron 4 go so go the back 7

 

[BoNcHiE]

While we are talking about how important certain positions are, every great defense has an elite Safety, not ever one has elite CBs or LBs. I think we overlook that position way to often. If we wanta be a good D we are going to have to get better at the Safety position at some point.

 

[CargoJon]

While we are talking about how important certain positions are, every great defense has an elite Safety, not ever one has elite CBs or LBs. I think we overlook that position way to often. If we wanta be a good D we are going to have to get better at the Safety position at some point.

What about the Giants? G.Wilson is pretty good but I don't know that I'd call him "elite." The other guy (James Butler) most people couldn't name without being told.

ETA: I know you want us to draft Phillips, but.....come on.....LOL

 

[morals99]

While we are talking about how important certain positions are, every great defense has an elite Safety, not ever one has elite CBs or LBs. I think we overlook that position way to often. If we wanta be a good D we are going to have to get better at the Safety position at some point.

Who was the safety for the 1985 Bears? I know you can look it up, but they are widely considered the best defense of all time. It's all relative...but you do make a point with safeties being overlooked. However there are many very average defenses with GREAT safeties:

Cardinals
Eagles
Saints (lol just kidding)
Colts
Redskins (before the death of ST...RIP)

 

[BoNcHiE]

What about the Giants? G.Wilson is pretty good but I don't know that I'd call him "elite." The other guy (James Butler) most people couldn't name without being told.

ETA: I know you want us to draft Phillips, but.....come on.....LOL

I don't want Phillips unless hes BPA. I don't think he will be anymore as I think Jenkins cements himself as a top 10 pick coming outa the combine.

And Gibril Wilson is good. Is he elite yet? Probably not, but neither is the Giants defense. They had a good year and an excellent playoff run, but they aren't the Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Bucs, Cowboys, and now the Colts for the past two years who consistenly are near the top in defense every year.

We are going to have to upgrade Bullocks at some point. Its been 3 years and the chances of him flipping a switch are getting lower by the day. There are 2 very good Safties in FA this year. We need to look at some of them.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Who was the safety for the 1985 Bears? I know you can look it up, but they are widely considered the best defense of all time. It's all relative...but you do make a point with safeties being overlooked. However there are many very average defenses with GREAT safeties:

Cardinals
Eagles
Saints (lol just kidding)
Colts
Redskins (before the death of ST...RIP)

The Redskins have fielded a top 10 D 3 outa the last 4 years. The Colts were top 5 in defense this year and look to remain such for some time to come. The Eagles have been top 10 in defense for like 6 straight years (maybe not exactly but its close).

Good one about the Saints

 

[CargoJon]

I don't want Phillips unless hes BPA. I don't think he will be anymore as I think Jenkins cements himself as a top 10 pick coming outa the combine.

And Gibril Wilson is good. Is he elite yet? Probably not, but neither is the Giants defense. They had a good year and an excellent playoff run, but they aren't the Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Bucs, Cowboys, and now the Colts for the past two years who consistenly are near the top in defense every year.

We are going to have to upgrade Bullocks at some point. Its been 3 years and the chances of him flipping a switch are getting lower by the day. There are 2 very good Safties in FA this year. We need to look at some of them.

Oh I agree with you 100% that Bullocks is not the answer.

I do disagree with you that the G-men's defense is not elite, however. At least this year it was. Just ask the Pats.

 

[Guitarzan]

as much as could be possible in laying blame for our 32 tds allowed, considering the amount of big plays that seemed to be a constant in those, I'd say safety is as good a place as any to lay blame.

 

[waazup]

The New York Giants really do not have any great players at DT. Its all about their DEs and LBs bringing the pressure (Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka).

 

[bergeaux]

I hate to be a pain about this, but it's all won or lost in the trenches. If the O-line or D-line wins down there, the rest of the game follows. There are rare exceptions, but 90% of the time it's not just a cliche. (Giants this year, 2002 TB Bucs, 85 Bears, Steelers, Ravens, the list goes on and on)

 

[CargoJon]

The New York Giants really do not have any great players at DT. Its all about their DEs and LBs bringing the pressure (Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka).

Alford sure looked great on that sack of Brady with about :20 left to play in the super bowl....

 

[bergeaux]

The New York Giants really do not have any great players at DT. Its all about their DEs and LBs bringing the pressure (Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Kiwanuka).

I would strongly disagree with you. Cofield and Robbins (as well as Alford) may not get much press, but they do what they are supposed to do in a 4-3, they gobble up blockers so running backs can't go far up the middle. For the pass they do the same so that the DEs can make sacks.

Mostly in the run, they cause RBs to have to string out to the outside because of the mob of people in the middle. Again that allows for the DEs and LBs to make tackles.

It's not pretty but as I pointed out in my post before, that's what DTs in the 4-3 are asked to do...

 

[Randy Jones]

Pressure up the middle and being solid against the run are very important. And very lacking from the current Saints roster.

Actually we were 13th in the NFL in least rushing yards/game allowed in the NFL. We were pretty bad though in passing yards/game. Overall pressure, period, would be desirable not just from the line and some of that probably comes from not stopping the pass. However, while I haven't researched the stats, I would be willing to bet that the passing yards stats were much worse in the 1st half of the season than the last half, especially the 1st four games.

 

[saintmdterps]

DT is very important, but unfortunately, IMHO, the most pressing need on this Saints team is CB, so I think we have to address that need first, then DT.

We may be able to get Dre Moore from Maryland in the 2nd round. I don't think he'll be available in the 3rd. I'm not sure at this point I'd want to give up the necesary pick(s) to trade up for Dorsey or Ellis when we're in such bad shape at CB.