How we can fix Jameis (1 Viewer)

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His potential is Aaron Rodgers dare I say Patrick Mahomes level good.

His worst is flat out unplayable.

So the question is how do we mitigate the turnovers out of his game ?

1. Run - We have the best back in the league , Murray is averaging more than most teams starters and is a freight train. Our offensive line is the best in the league and will be for years to come. That spells run the damn ball. Not science here , running the ball takes the pressure off of Jameis , nullifies the passrush , and makes those instances we do pass like on play action much more likely to be explosive plays. We will have guys running wide open. Easy pickings for Jameis. Make the game easy.

2. Scheme it out of him - Most of dudes picks come on poor situations. 3rd and forever , offensive line can't protect him , no real checkdowns in Bruce Arians hail mary offense. So continue throwing the ball to AK out of the backfield. Move the pocket , give him time to find an open guy rather than having him let go of a dart before a guy can get separation. The more time he gets , the better decisions he makes.

3. He improves - We can scheme all we want , what matters most is he develops. Understands coverage , anticipates releases , and instead of trying to win it all in one throw , lives to fight another down or drive.

We can't afford to let talent like his pass us by without trying to correct the mistakes. Because if we hit on Jameis Winston , New Orleans will reign a decade longer.

Young OL , Young Backs , Young Receivers , Young QB , all balling at an elite level is a dream to dream about.
 
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I have two issues with that. First, you are leaving off two important stats that were major issues for Jameis.

Peyton: 108 Sacks, 27 Fumbles
Jameis: 169 Sacks, 50 Fumbles

Jameis was consistently one of the worst QBs with negative plays. You can blame the o-line but at some point, you have to be smarter with the football.

Secondly, it was a different time for Peyton's early career. I know it doesn't seem that long ago but things were different then. In the late 90's to have a top 10 QB rating an 85 would do. During Jameis's time, that would put you around the bottom 10 QB ratings. You should be judged among your peers.
Funny enough, the person that replaced him in his first 5 years....

Brady: 156 sack, 47 fumbles

So we gotta keep that measure the same right? Amazing was coaching and a competent team can cover right? And to jump on the Peyton thing, Tony Dungy said the said thing (about their numbers being very similar) but Coach Dungy pointed out the key point that always seems to go unnoticed. The Colts were a better TEAM. This is from Manning's coach lips. All everyone saw was "he has Evans and Godwin....weapanz" Discounting the fact that majority of the team was trash. People say that he holds the ball too long..ha, have you ever looked their offense and the WR route tree. They run an offense where the plays take a long time to develop. So that mixed with a crap line will increase QB hits, sacks, and fumbles. I guess advanced stats really don't tell the whole story. Truth is, if he wasn't mobile, that OL would be graded WAY worse than it was. Again, something else stats don't show.

Aaron Rogers Patrick Mahomes good??? You’ve got to be kidding. What have you ever seen from him that gives you that comparison? I get that the backup QB is always a fan favorite because of the unknown, but we’ve seen Winston for years. He is what he is. An average QB that makes bone head decisions. He’s Aaron Brooks 2.0.
I'd argued that Mahomes while had the crazy 5000/50 season but yet, on the road to the Super Bowl, he put up Alex Smith numbers and on the road to doing the same this year. Mahomes was gifted a dang near complete team in which the QB was NOT weakest link (for those that actually looked at the Chiefs play, their defense was the let down, as well as Andy Reid's time management). He has more highlights than Alex Smith could dream of, but outside of his MVP year, his numbers are eerily similar to Alex Smith (both surface and advanced). He has a highlight play and can sling it, but Andy Reid's offense is always predicated on the short throw. It is a tradition WCO. I say that to say this; you honestly don't know how Mahomes would perform if he was drafted to a team that was inept at coaching and personnel. Probably the same as he did in college. :unsure:

I feel like the one QB who should have been seen as the standard was Russell Wilson but that's a different story for a different day but I was take him over Mahomes every day of the week and 10 times on Sunday, Monday and Thursday.
 
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Funny enough, the person that replaced him in his first 5 years....

Brady: 156 sack, 47 fumbles

So we gotta keep that measure the same right? Amazing was coaching and a competent team can cover right? And to jump on the Peyton thing, Tony Dungy said the said thing (about their numbers being very similar) but Coach Dungy pointed out the key point that always seems to go unnoticed. The Colts were a better TEAM. This is from Manning's coach lips. All everyone saw was "he has Evans and Godwin....weapanz" Discounting the fact that majority of the team was trash. People say that he holds the ball too long..ha, have you ever looked their offense and the WR route tree. They run an offense where the plays take a long time to develop. So that mixed with a crap line will increase QB hits, sacks, and fumbles. I guess advanced stats really don't tell the whole story. Truth is, if he wasn't mobile, that OL would be graded WAY worse than it was. Again, something else stats don't show.


I'd argued that Mahomes while had the crazy 5000/50 season but yet, on the road to the Super Bowl, he put up Alex Smith numbers and on the road to doing the same this year. Mahomes was gifted a dang near complete team in which the QB was NOT weakest link (for those that actually looked at the Chiefs play, their defense was the let down, as well as Andy Reid's time management). He has more highlights than Alex Smith could dream of, but outside of his MVP year, his numbers are eerily similar to Alex Smith (both surface and advanced). He has a highlight play and can sling it, but Andy Reid's offense is always predicated on the short throw. It is a tradition WCO. I say that to say this; you honestly don't know how Mahomes would perform if he was drafted to a team that was inept at coaching and personnel. Probably the same as he did in college. :unsure:

I feel like the one QB who should have been seen as the standard was Russell Wilson but that's a different story for a different day but I was take him over Mahomes every day of the week and 10 times on Sunday, Monday and Thursday.
The point I made is still there unchallenged. Doubling down doesn't change it. Manning was a top 10 QB in his first 5 years. Winston was a bottom 10 QB his first 5 years.

As far as Brady. He may have approached Winston in Sacks and Fumbles, but he was nowhere near Winston in interceptions. You can't pick and choose which negative plays to count.

As far as the positive stats. Again Brady was a top 10 QB among his peers in his first 5 years. Compare Winston to his peers, not historical numbers.
 
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The point I made is still there unchallenged. Doubling down doesn't change it. Manning was a top 10 QB in his first 5 years. Winston was a bottom 10 QB his first 5 years.

As far as Brady. He may have approached Winston in Sacks and Fumbles, but he was nowhere near Winston in interceptions. You can't pick and choose which negative plays to count.

As far as the positive stats. Again Brady was a top 10 QB among his peers in his first 5 years. Compare Winston to his peers, not historical numbers.
Actually, even with those 30 interceptions, he only had 22 more interceptions than Tom Brady his first 5 years. If Winston actually went off his average this year, it would have been a lot closer.

Last thing regarding Manning, I'm not doubling down on anything but when a HoF coach states something, we might want to listen


And paying attention to their actual team structure helps, Peyton had all of these interceptions while having Marvin Harrison and later Reggie Wayne as his WR1 and WR2 and who was he handing the ball off to? Mofoin Edge. Plus do you know where their OL ranked during his time as well? Plus, like Coach Dungy said, Manning had the benefit of playing in the same offense. How many times has the Bucs offense changed since Jameis got there? Not saying that you fall under this category, but truth is, most people don't like Jameis for some of the off field accusations (and it would help if people actually looked deeper into those than just headlines) and they let that dislike alter what they see on the field. We talk about eras; up until last season, Big Ben went into the season with more interceptions than Jameis (but less fumbles because he took way less hits). No one said one thing about his turnovers because, we can look at his other numbers and see the team in a position to make it to the playoffs.

Like I said before, sometimes we just don't know what we have fall into our laps. We can talk about his turnovers but the Bucs were still a few made XPs/Field Goals and defensive stops away from being a 10-6 team last year, and that with knowing what we know now about his health. Just saying
 
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Actually, even with those 30 interceptions, he only had 22 more interceptions than Tom Brady his first 5 years. If Winston actually went off his average this year, it would have been a lot closer.

Last thing regarding Manning, I'm not doubling down on anything but when a HoF coach states something, we might want to listen


And paying attention to their actual team structure helps, Peyton had all of these interceptions while having Marvin Harrison and later Reggie Wayne as his WR1 and WR2 and who was he handing the ball off to? Mofoin Edge. Plus do you know where their OL ranked during his time as well? Plus, like Coach Dungy said, Manning had the benefit of playing in the same offense. How many times has the Bucs offense changed since Jameis got there? Not saying that you fall under this category, but truth is, most people don't like Jameis for some of the off field accusations (and it would help if people actually looked deeper into those than just headlines) and they let that dislike alter what they see on the field. We talk about eras; up until last season, Big Ben went into the season with more interceptions than Jameis (but less fumbles because he took way less hits). No one said one thing about his turnovers because, we can look at his other numbers and see the team in a position to make it to the playoffs.

Like I said before, sometimes we just don't know what we have fall into our laps. We can talk about his turnovers but the Bucs were still a few made XPs/Field Goals and defensive stops away from being a 10-6 team last year, and that with knowing what we know now about his health. Just saying
You are doubling down on them having the same stats. Different angle, same point. They are clearly not the same stats. Tribusky is probably the best QB in the league compared to a QB in the 60s.

Dungy is now a talking head and he is commenting on stats fed to him. He is no longer a head coach. He is there for commentary only.

Critically think about this for a second...

If Winston was just as good as Peyton Manning 20 years ago but a bottom 10 QB in the league now, the majority of the league is now better than Peyton Manning. So Winston was still not good.
 
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CHI-TOWNSAINT

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Aaron Rogers Patrick Mahomes good??? You’ve got to be kidding. What have you ever seen from him that gives you that comparison? I get that the backup QB is always a fan favorite because of the unknown, but we’ve seen Winston for years. He is what he is. An average QB that makes bone head decisions. He’s Aaron Brooks 2.0.
I think AB is a great comparison for Winston. In saying that, I'd be willing to wager AB would have been significantly better than he was with Haslett. Coaching matters and I think JW would flourish if given the chance to work with Payton.
 
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You are doubling down on them having the same stats. Different angle, same point. They are clearly not the same stats. Tribusky is probably the best QB in the league compared to a QB in the 60s.

Dungy is now a talking head and he is commenting on stats fed to him. He is no longer a head coach. He is there for commentary only.

Critically think about this for a second...

If Winston was just as good as Peyton Manning 20 years ago but a bottom 10 QB in the league now, the majority of the league is now better than Peyton Manning. So Winston was still not good.
You think Coach Dungy is saying that from a talking head point and not someone who was actively coaching at the time and then coached the Colts to a SB?

And if we are using top 10 bottom 10, what metric are you using, because if it is just use QB Rating or :sick: QBR to make this determination, then we can use advanced stats to point the Jameis, in some aspects, being top 10, especially when they are correlated.
 

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His potential is Aaron Rodgers dare I say Patrick Mahomes level good.

His worst is flat out unplayable.

So the question is how do we mitigate the turnovers out of his game ?

1. Run - We have the best back in the league , Murray is averaging more than most teams starters and is a freight train. Our offensive line is the best in the league and will be for years to come. That spells run the damn ball. Not science here , running the ball takes the pressure off of Jameis , nullifies the passrush , and makes those instances we do pass like on play action much more likely to be explosive plays. We will have guys running wide open. Easy pickings for Jameis. Make the game easy.

2. Scheme it out of him - Most of dudes picks come on poor situations. 3rd and forever , offensive line can't protect him , no real checkdowns in Bruce Arians hail mary offense. So continue throwing the ball to AK out of the backfield. Move the pocket , give him time to find an open guy rather than having him let go of a dart before a guy can get separation. The more time he gets , the better decisions he makes.

3. He improves - We can scheme all we want , what matters most is he develops. Understands coverage , anticipates releases , and instead of trying to win it all in one throw , lives to fight another down or drive.

We can't afford to let talent like his pass us by without trying to correct the mistakes. Because if we hit on Jameis Winston , New Orleans will reign a decade longer.

Young OL , Young Backs , Young Receivers , Young QB , all balling at an elite level is a dream to dream about.
Ship him to another team
 

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Give him about 12-14 easy completions per game. Slants, screens, RBs in the flats. Simplify the deep aggressive throws. If it's not there then check it down.
 
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You think Coach Dungy is saying that from a talking head point and not someone who was actively coaching at the time and then coached the Colts to a SB?

And if we are using top 10 bottom 10, what metric are you using, because if it is just use QB Rating or :sick: QBR to make this determination, then we can use advanced stats to point the Jameis, in some aspects, being top 10, especially when they are correlated.
He retired well before Jameis came in the league. I doubt he puts in anywhere close to the same hours studying the game. I doubt he was studying hours of film to come to the conclusion. It was an off the cuff statement. If coaches really thought that he would have been a hotter commodity this offseason.

I'm using QB rating as an overall passing grade. Its not perfect but okay within expectations. Mainly to save time from compiling and posting numbers. It does omit things like sacks, fumbles and runs. 2 of those 3 would also dock him, not sure about runs but I don't consider him a particularly good runner. Rating also gets past issues with games played. I dont trust QBR, it is always sketchy.

I'm sure you can find some things he was top 10 in at some point, but you have to add up the bad and the good. Last year is a perfect example of that. Going through his career you see him often in the bottom half of the league with most stats. Now do the same exercise with Peyton the first 5 years of his career.
 
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dwid

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His decisions in the Bruce Arians offense:

Throw risky bomb option #1. If not open, progress to risky bomb option #2. If still not there, check down to insanely covered Hail-Mary route #3.

He executed that offense as well as anyone, but the problem wasn't the QB I don't think. But you are correct in that we can coach decision making, you can't coach the intangibles he has.
While he did attempt the most deep passes of any qb, most of his picks came on short to intermediate throws, with "only" 9 interceptions occuring on deep throws
 
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While he did attempt the most deep passes of any qb, most of his picks came on short to intermediate throws, with "only" 9 interceptions occuring on deep throws
That's rather encouraging.

And to respond to the criticism of me comparing his cieling of Rodgers and Mahomes level performances , I stand by it.

He was drafted higher than both for a reason. His arm is just as big , can make virtually all the same throws.

His first 5 seasons compared with Peyton's and Drew's are very similar.

We have a perfect situation for him to walk into. There's no imaginable way he'd get worse.
 

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