Howard Dean, thanks for the election! GOP will be thanking Dean in November. (1 Viewer)

[DavidM]

I hope you're right and the DNC is taking MI for granted. According to the current Rasmussen poll, McCain beats Hillary or Barrack in MI and FL by razor thin margins. I don't doubt Dean is wrong in his current handling of the situation based on the "letter of the law." My experience is that Leadership takes more than simply coloring with greater force within the lines.

btw...this is a super-de-duper cool GE tracking map.

Election 2008: Presidential, Senate and House Races Updated Daily

What we're seeing is Obama and Clinton both being vetted to a far greater extent than McCain at this point. And as it stands, Obama has weathered to a large degree what some thought was going to be a rapid campaign killer. That has to be at least somewhat frustrating to the GOP.

As for the general election, McCain is going to have to measure up on issues like the economy and Iraq and overcome the extremely low public opinion of George Bush and that residual effect on the Republican Party.

And you've mentioned Rezko on occasion in discussion and Wright has received a lot of public attention and debate. On the other side you have a candidate involved in the Keating Five scandal (how is that going to play against the latest backdrop of our current lending mess?) and who once uttered a racial slur and defended its use. And I expect we'll hear a fair amount of -- "the issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should" -- which won't exactly be elixir to the growing group of Americans struggling more and more to make ends meet.

It's not a matter of going out on a limb to suggest that a woman or a black man faces a daunting challenge to reach the White House but to their benefit, it comes on the heels of eight years of the Bush Administration and a current domestic climate that has many people concerned. It gives either one of them their best fighting chance.

McCain currently sits on the sidelines. Things will eventually get a lot more uncomfortable for him and the GOP when attention turns in the general election.

 

[RebSaint]

Usually.

Sometimes things really are exactly what they appear to be.

Sometimes they are even worse.

Steve's assessment could well look generous, thirty years from now.

I agree. I think Bush's legacy will be invariably connected mostly to the future of Iraq; how Iraq will shake out in the next 10-20 years will be directly proportional I think to how historians examine the Bush presidency.

But I also think its quite likely that he pretty much sealed a below average or rating for the various positions on civil liberties regardless of what happens in Iraq.

 

[Comus]

A plan that doesn't include votes from every state is a bad plan. It's an election for goodness sake. Everyone's vote should count. QUOTE]

Elections have rules; just as I can't send it my absentee ballot anytime, or vote at a booth without ID. MI and FLA are sounding like the old ladies who couldn't understand a butterfly ballot.

An Olympic runner's time won't 'be counted' if he doesn't follow the rules on start time or steriods. Any race has parameters which have to define start and end times, otherwise it's an unmeasurable cluster of goo.

 

[gavinj]

I hope you're right and the DNC is taking MI for granted. According to the current Rasmussen poll, McCain beats Hillary or Barrack in MI and FL by razor thin margins. [/URL]

You better look a little closer at those polls. Without even looking myself, I bet there's at least 10-15% "undecideds" or "ain't tellins" in those results. Rasmussen is one of the worst polls out there. Michigan has been voting Democrat ever since the auto industry abandoned the place in the 80s and McCain got clobbered by Romney in the primary based solely on the economy issue. It's the state where his "More Wars/Less Jobs" platform was born and he doesn't stand a chance there in the GE. It was a 3 point win for Kerry and it will be a 4 point win for Obama or Clinton.

 

[mr.t]

I think both Carter and Bush junior were poor presidents. I think that Jimmy was worse than Bush junior though. But, I am sure that I do not know what I am thinking or writing about though.

 

[longtime lurker]

A plan that doesn't include votes from every state is a bad plan. It's an election for goodness sake. Everyone's vote should count. QUOTE]

Elections have rules; just as I can't send it my absentee ballot anytime, or vote at a booth without ID. MI and FLA are sounding like the old ladies who couldn't understand a butterfly ballot.

An Olympic runner's time won't 'be counted' if he doesn't follow the rules on start time or steriods. Any race has parameters which have to define start and end times, otherwise it's an unmeasurable cluster of goo.

So you penalize the 99% of the Registered Democrats in Florida because of a squabble between Howard Dean and the Governing body of the Democrat Party in FL?!?

This doesn't make any sense. I feel that my vote, and the right to cast it, should count just as much as yours does. The overwhelming majority of voters in this State did not cause this problem and should not be blamed for it.

I'd fight for everyones right to vote including yours even though you don't feel that my vote should matter. This stalemate could cause enough voters to shift and throw the election. It doesn't take many as 2000 proved.

 

[DavidM]

So you penalize the 99% of the Registered Democrats in Florida because of a squabble between Howard Dean and the Governing body of the Democrat Party in FL?!?

This doesn't make any sense. I feel that my vote, and the right to cast it, should count just as much as yours does. The overwhelming majority of voters in this State did not cause this problem and should not be blamed for it.

I'd fight for everyones right to vote including yours even though you don't feel that my vote should matter. This stalemate could cause enough voters to shift and throw the election. It doesn't take many as 2000 proved.

It is a very unfortunate situation and if a workable, agreeable resolution exists, hopefully this can get resolved with as little fall-out as possible. But that doesn't seem likely to this point.

That said, all who voted on the Democrat side in Florida and Michigan should have done so with the awareness that their vote wasn't going to count and with little realistic cause to believe that was going to change. The rules and ramifications were set out beforehand.

 

[longtime lurker]

It looks like Dean is going to back down and seat the delegates:

Rensselaer Republican

It's about time he snaps back to reality.

 

[Pure Energy]

You better look a little closer at those polls. Without even looking myself, I bet there's at least 10-15% "undecideds" or "ain't tellins" in those results. Rasmussen is one of the worst polls out there. Michigan has been voting Democrat ever since the auto industry abandoned the place in the 80s and McCain got clobbered by Romney in the primary based solely on the economy issue. It's the state where his "More Wars/Less Jobs" platform was born and he doesn't stand a chance there in the GE. It was a 3 point win for Kerry and it will be a 4 point win for Obama or Clinton.

If the DNC believes MI is a slam dunk that's okay by me. However, I'm of the opinion, the Dems won't win the GE without carrying BOTH MI and FL. If they fail to carry MI, my guess is this nonsense with their delegates will have a lot to do with it.

 

[SaintsFan11]

It looks like Dean is going to back down and seat the delegates:

Rensselaer Republican

It's about time he snaps back to reality.

I think the delegates will be told that they will be seated after it is clear that Obama has won (right after the 'superdelegate primary').

 

[gavinj]

If the DNC believes MI is a slam dunk that's okay by me. However, I'm of the opinion, the Dems won't win the GE without carrying BOTH MI and FL. If they fail to carry MI, my guess is this nonsense with their delegates will have a lot to do with it.

They probably weren't going to win Florida anyway in all honesty. The state has been trending Republican due to the changing demographics of its populace and will continue to do so. If the GOP wants to dump a bunch of money into Michigan, that's fine by me. The difference you and I have is this: you think this Presidential election is the Democrats' to lose while I think it's McCain's to lose. The Democrats, as usual, need help from outside to take Republican votes away from McCain in order to win the Presidency. That's why Dean, Pelosi, and the DSCC really frame this election in terms of what happens in the Congressional races. The Presidency is still the Republicans' rice bowl while it's just a fundraising exercise for Democrats. The leaderships' heads, which you erroneously assert, hang in the outcome of the Presidential race... do not. They hang in the balance of power in the House and Senate. Lose those and they're gone. Obama helps the cause for a number of reasons while Hillary hurts the cause for a number of reasons.

 

[texasjefe]

The likely target is DNC leadership (or lack of leadership)--Howard Dean. You heard it here first!

Yeah, Dean really sucks.

Gobs of money from the masses, unprecedented primary turnout, and candidates in every possible election in 50-states. %#^@& that Dean!

Killed the old loser Swing State Strategy. What a jerk.

Taking down the DLC capitulators. What were you thinking Howard?

Overtaking the House in 2006. Howard, you should resign.

Just nabbed Hastert's longtime Republican seat. Howard, you __ __ __ __ __ __ __ !!!

Holding the Michigan and Florida Party leaders accountable. Bad, Howard!

Yep, Dean sucks.

 

[gavinj]

Yeah, Dean really sucks.

Gobs of money from the masses, unprecedented primary turnout, and candidates in every possible election in 50-states. %#^@& that Dean!

Killed the old loser Swing State Strategy. What a jerk.

Taking down the DLC capitulators. What were you thinking Howard?

Overtaking the House in 2006. Howard, you should resign.

Just nabbed Hastert's longtime Republican seat. Howard, you __ __ __ __ __ __ __ !!!

Holding the Michigan and Florida Party leaders accountable. Bad, Howard!

Yep, Dean sucks.

lol, go easy. He's a GOPer. He's looking from the outside in. Watching the "news" and stuff.

 

[RABDOG]

"w" is a horrible president...easily top 3 worst all time....if he is not seen that way 30 years from now, that would be a serious glossing over of history, which wouldn't surprise me at all, since it has happened a time or two in our past.

 

[Pure Energy]

"w" is a horrible president...easily top 3 worst all time....if he is not seen that way 30 years from now, that would be a serious glossing over of history, which wouldn't surprise me at all, since it has happened a time or two in our past.

With the above as a given, the Presidency should be a cakewalk for the Dems. In my opinion, gross mismanagement will cede the election to the Reps.