Saints I’m a homer: Guilty as charged. But this vid gave me a HARD dose of reality! (2 Viewers)

Something that I've always said and believe is that in 2022, on paper, we had the better team. On the surface, we drafted well, we did well in free agency, and CGM was coming back healthy. The first 3 quarters of the Falcons game told me all that I needed to know about the season. How could an offense that was miles better, on paper, regress?

But I can't say that he necessarily inherited a losing team because we technically went 9-8 and he improved the team personnel wise...lol. What became painfully clear was the chasm between CSP and DA/Sneaky Pete. For me, I ask the question, if Sean Payton had the "Day 1" 2022 starters, where do I think we would have finished the season?
I don’t know if we would’ve had the same 2022 offensive starters under Payton. I’m not sure if he would’ve drafted Olave or the same WR archetype in the 1st round. Maybe he looks for a bigger receiver and trades up higher for Drake London. Or he settles for Treylon Burks at the original pick. He might have possibly waited until the 2nd to get a WR of Olave’s build. We would’ve gotten the less productive WR than Olave in any of those scenarios even if the other WRs were in Payton’s offense. Who knows if Shaheed would’ve also been apart of Payton’s 2022 udfa class and have a path to a roster spot to realize his long term potential as a playmaker at WR.

Allen did a good job immediately addressing the need to upgrade the passcatchers as soon as he became HC. He and Loomis have been upgrading offensive personnel each year since he became HC and crafting the offense into being competitive again in progressive stages. The offensive players names on paper made it seem like the offense had some talent. But I don’t think it was looked at from a fully honest realistic POV of an injury prone aging star WR and nothing else behind him in the overall passcatcher group going into 2022.

I think there’s a chance Payton musters 2 more wins to go 9-8 again in 2022 depending on if improvements were made to WR and if Winston was healthy. The Saints WR/TE talent was extremely terrible after the 2021 season. The longterm QB outlook was still uncertain. If Winston was still playing through injury at the start of 2022, I don’t think there would’ve been much difference in 2022 under Payton since backup QBs would’ve ended up running the offense again back to back seasons.
 
Something that I've always said and believe is that in 2022, on paper, we had the better team. On the surface, we drafted well, we did well in free agency, and CGM was coming back healthy. The first 3 quarters of the Falcons game told me all that I needed to know about the season. How could an offense that was miles better, on paper, regress?

But I can't say that he necessarily inherited a losing team because we technically went 9-8 and he improved the team personnel wise...lol. What became painfully clear was the chasm between CSP and DA/Sneaky Pete. For me, I ask the question, if Sean Payton had the "Day 1" 2022 starters, where do I think we would have finished the season?
Paper is not worth the paper it's written on my friend.
1st, I don't you'll find anyone that thinks DA is a better HC than SP. I don't think we did well in FA only kinda impact guy was Maye. And really all we got out of the draft that contributed was Olave. We got Shaheed but he was hurt a good bit of the yr.
My take is that JW needed SP to keep him from doing some of the things JW does ( We don't need to go in-depth on JW) PC was not the guy to guide JW or AD or even DC. It was on the offensive side of the ball where the issues were, and because we did not have SP.
Here we are going into 24, We have a guy I think is on the rise @ OC. a almost whole new O coaching staff with 2 of the best OL guys in the league running a QB/OL friendly system. Yes, we have holes. But we have a draft and we do like to sign guys after May 1st so there's time to fill some of these holes. Also, almost all of our 23 draft class redshirted last yr. Plus I look to see a much improved Penning under Benton and Dennison.
To answer your question If in 22 we had DA as HC and Kubiak and this offensive staff we may very well have seen a different outcome of the 22 season. Weather or not JW got hurt and AD played a good portion of the season
 
I don’t know if we would’ve had the same 2022 offensive starters under Payton. I’m not sure if he would’ve drafted Olave or the same WR archetype in the 1st round. Maybe he looks for a bigger receiver and trades up higher for Drake London. Or he settles for Treylon Burks at the original pick. He might have possibly waited until the 2nd to get a WR of Olave’s build. We would’ve gotten the less productive WR than Olave in any of those scenarios even if the other WRs were in Payton’s offense. Who knows if Shaheed would’ve also been apart of Payton’s 2022 udfa class and have a path to a roster spot to realize his long term potential as a playmaker at WR.

Allen did a good job immediately addressing the need to upgrade the passcatchers as soon as he became HC. He and Loomis have been upgrading offensive personnel each year since he became HC and crafting the offense into being competitive again in progressive stages. The offensive players names on paper made it seem like the offense had some talent. But I don’t think it was looked at from a fully honest realistic POV of an injury prone aging star WR and nothing else behind him in the overall passcatcher group going into 2022.

I think there’s a chance Payton musters 2 more wins to go 9-8 again in 2022 depending on if improvements were made to WR and if Winston was healthy. The Saints WR/TE talent was extremely terrible after the 2021 season. The longterm QB outlook was still uncertain. If Winston was still playing through injury at the start of 2022, I don’t think there would’ve been much difference in 2022 under Payton since backup QBs would’ve ended up running the offense again back to back seasons.
I agree with you on a lot of points, as I believe we had a pretty good draft strategy going into 2022 but I think we win more than 9 games because I believe he would have had a better strategy for Winston playing injured, or he would have allowed him to sit out until fully healed without the need to look over his shoulders...lol. But even with Dalton, I think he could have coached us to 11 wins easy, especially when you sit back and think about the games we lost and how we lost them.

Paper is not worth the paper it's written on my friend.
Agreed, brother
1st, I don't you'll find anyone that thinks DA is a better HC than SP. I don't think we did well in FA only kinda impact guy was Maye. And really all we got out of the draft that contributed was Olave. We got Shaheed but he was hurt a good bit of the yr.
My take is that JW needed SP to keep him from doing some of the things JW does ( We don't need to go in-depth on JW)
In reality, all CSP did was make the run game a focus, used the screen game and incorporated more play-action. Really....lol
PC was not the guy to guide JW or AD or even DC. It was on the offensive side of the ball where the issues were, and because we did not have SP.
Here we are going into 24, We have a guy I think is on the rise @ OC. a almost whole new O coaching staff with 2 of the best OL guys in the league running a QB/OL friendly system. Yes, we have holes. But we have a draft and we do like to sign guys after May 1st so there's time to fill some of these holes. Also, almost all of our 23 draft class redshirted last yr. Plus I look to see a much improved Penning under Benton and Dennison.
To answer your question If in 22 we had DA as HC and Kubiak and this offensive staff we may very well have seen a different outcome of the 22 season. Weather or not JW got hurt and AD played a good portion of the season
Part of me feel like 2022 injuries killed what PC was going for but then I think about how bad the play calling was and change my mind. Our offense looked much better to end the season when Pete simplified the offense (his words, not mine..lol) but I'm very interested to see what Kubiak does, his approach, and how quickly the offense picks up the scheme.
 
I commend your effort, but logic and reason won't win a debate where your opposition is entrenched in disdain or dislike, because it's emotion based. The posters don't "feel" DA is a good coach and that feeling won't change until he proves he's a good coach. That proof requires wins and he doesn't have enough under his belt to support you're counter.

you're head will explode if you continue...eats a grape and steps back into shadows.

And I commend your effort to misrepresent the facts, direct quote "he (DA) inherited a losing team"......false.....that is the exact BS I'm referring to.....This notion that folks need to downplay CSP's effectiveness in order to prop up a thus far failed head coach that hasn't shown he is capable of well....anything, as of yet....rubs me the wrong way.....

Be better.....
 
And I commend your effort to misrepresent the facts, direct quote "he (DA) inherited a losing team"......false.....that is the exact BS I'm referring to.....This notion that folks need to downplay CSP's effectiveness in order to prop up a thus far failed head coach that hasn't shown he is capable of well....anything, as of yet....rubs me the wrong way.....

Be better.....
yes ma'am
 
Saints lacking skill talent and depth from Payton’s last year isn’t BS at all.

Meant to clarify, the BS statement was directed at the comment that DA inherited a losing team.....they were 9-8.....that statement was patently untrue by someone who likely knows better....

This is a common tactic by DA supporters, they misrepresent, disinform and downplay CSP's successes (whilst going on and on about his flaws) in order to prop up DA.....

I don't hate DA, I just don't think he has shown he is capable of being a competent HC.....and others may disagree, that's all good.....But trying to tear down what CSP did in order to make DA look better I can't abide.....I hope DA suddenly morphs into a competent HC because he's back next year and I am a Saints fan.....
 
Meant to clarify, the BS statement was directed at the comment that DA inherited a losing team.....they were 9-8.....that statement was patently untrue by someone who likely knows better....
I have no 🦌 in the fight but I think its disingenuous when either side points to record as they just completed a 9-8 season in 2023 under DA (thus the current DA coached squad is also not a losing team)...feels more like status quo to me than a drop off (which is below our current possibly unreasonable expectations).
 
AFC West a minimum of 1-3 for DA. No way he’s beating Harbaugh, Reid, and Payton IMO. He has a chance against his Raiders and fellow defensive head coach Pierce, but I honestly think Pierce is a better leader of men than DA. The Saints played an easy schedule against a lot of backup QB’s last year and this year will not be nearly as easy. Cousins is also in the division now and is better than Carr.
He hasn't had the talent to be able to beat good teams yet. But they did almost beat the Jaguars and Lions with their starting QBs. If DA takes that big step next year he could get a big win. Also Harbaugh I believe is 0-1 vs DA. But who is going to turn the Broncos into the Brees Saints next year? No rookie QB in this class that fits Payton's system is going to light it up in year one. I can't think of any playmakers on the team either besides Cortland Sutton or Jeudy, who is a slot anyway.
 
Yup, coach of the year that year IMO.....



I never said they had a great roster but a good enough roster that had it been healthy it undoubtedly would have been a playoff team.....and some of those offensive holes were filled with the next draft, which because Jeff Ireland and company remained probably wouldn't have been much different, if at all, had CSP stayed.....

DA bungled the JW situation so badly I'm not sure if he was not healthy at all, healthy enough to play or DA just favored AD over him....period....

What your post illustrates to me is the CSP is very capable of doing more....with less.....and DA clearly needs more to just go 9-8 despite having a gift of an easy schedule... .
The schedule really wasn't that easy. Three of the AFC South teams had a winning record. Two of the NFC North teams made the playoffs and the Rams also made the playoffs. Also they had to play two Thursday Night games(and I'm starting to believe that affected us) against a good team early on and a Rams team catching fire. They also had the Texans on a back to back road game and they were the fourth in five weeks. They got the Lions at the wrong time.

While the AFC West is tough, the NFC East is taking a hit. The Eagles are the team to most likely win another 10 games but they are showing to feel entitled. The Cowboys are bound to implode with finger pointing at the QB and coach. McCarthy is not a fit there but Dak is not good enough. The Rams lost Darnold to retirement and I expect them to fall back below Seattle and not have a winning record playing the Packers, Lions, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, and Eagles. The Browns will not have Flacco but an overrated Watson who we have already beaten. Also, they're not finishing ahead of the Steelers and Bengals again. The Packers game should be a revenge game. However, GB fired that DC and Love has gotten more confident. We're likely not getting off to another 17-0 start but it will balance out. GB I believe is going to contend for the top seed in the NFC with SF or Seattle(if SF regresses enough).
 
The schedule really wasn't that easy. Three of the AFC South teams had a winning record. Two of the NFC North teams made the playoffs and the Rams also made the playoffs. Also they had to play two Thursday Night games(and I'm starting to believe that affected us) against a good team early on and a Rams team catching fire. They also had the Texans on a back to back road game and they were the fourth in five weeks. They got the Lions at the wrong time.

While the AFC West is tough, the NFC East is taking a hit. The Eagles are the team to most likely win another 10 games but they are showing to feel entitled. The Cowboys are bound to implode with finger pointing at the QB and coach. McCarthy is not a fit there but Dak is not good enough. The Rams lost Darnold to retirement and I expect them to fall back below Seattle and not have a winning record playing the Packers, Lions, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, and Eagles. The Browns will not have Flacco but an overrated Watson who we have already beaten. Also, they're not finishing ahead of the Steelers and Bengals again. The Packers game should be a revenge game. However, GB fired that DC and Love has gotten more confident. We're likely not getting off to another 17-0 start but it will balance out. GB I believe is going to contend for the top seed in the NFC with SF or Seattle(if SF regresses enough).

Simple google search dispels your notion.....

"Saints opponents had a . 433 winning percentage which is good for the 14th easiest schedule of any NFL team since 2001."

The rest smacks of excuses, the Saints were 2-6 against teams with a better than .500 record and one of those wins was against another 9-8 team (Bucs).....

The one thing your posts illustrates well is the Saints under DA rarely beat decent-good teams....

I'm all for hoping DA and the Saints turn it around next year, because I'm a Saints fan after all, but I really can't stand the lame excuses, misinformation and everything else that lack context that folks use to excuse what thus far has been a DA HCing failure.....
 
He hasn't had the talent to be able to beat good teams yet. But they did almost beat the Jaguars and Lions with their starting QBs. If DA takes that big step next year he could get a big win. Also Harbaugh I believe is 0-1 vs DA. But who is going to turn the Broncos into the Brees Saints next year? No rookie QB in this class that fits Payton's system is going to light it up in year one. I can't think of any playmakers on the team either besides Cortland Sutton or Jeudy, who is a slot anyway.
I love your optimism. I believe Payton can beat the Saints with a back up QB because it’ll mean that much to him to beat the Saints.
 
More profound thoughts brought to you by the Dennis Dandies.

You play 6 out of 17 games against your division. It’s not “too much influence”. It’s math.
That’s over 1/3 of the schedule and Carolina’s two wins from ‘23 counts twice. They have outsized influence on the entire NFC South’s strength of schedule, as evidenced by 4 of the 6 easiest strengths of schedule being the entire NFC south (CHI and LAC are the other two teams in the bottom six).

And finally… Please just put me on ignore. I’m obviously bad for your blood pressure and you’ve chased me around the board since the week I joined specifically to argue with and belittle me. This isn’t the first time I’ve addressed this. Being pessimistic about the team is one thing but you specifically continue to be abrasive and insulting in your posts. Please stop. Gain some perspective. You and I are both Saints fans. This attitude is extremely unnecessary.
 

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