i am sick of inside the nfl on hbo (2 Viewers)

[saints225]

Jimmy the Greek attributed the dominance of the black athlete to "selective breeding" practices with regards to slaves. The "bigger/stronger/faster were bred (by slave owners) with the bigger/stronger/faster", according to JtG.

It's an interesting theory - whether or not it holds water, who knows? But it unnecessarily brought up an unpleasant part of history, and he was punished for it.

Jimmy the Greek was punished for his comment because it was an idiotic comment not based on logic. It's not even a legitimate theory. The reason you see more black athletes is that for years it was seen as the only way out of poverty. Especially when you consider that black people for the most part of the 20th century weren't given access to a decent education and even those who had a college degree were still forced to work as unskilled laborers. Why do you think there are so many European players in the NBA now? Is it because white players from Europe are more athletic than white players from the U.S.? I would think that it's reasonable to think that the reason has more to do with economics and the value of education in the U.S., especially amongst the caucasian race here. In Europe, especially Eastern Europe, playing basketball is an inexpensive way for people to try to raise above poverty and make enough money to take care of their family. If JtG's theory made any kind of sense, why are there so few black athletes in hockey, tennis, or even rugby? Economics is the reason why. You can make a basketball goal out of a piece of plywood and an old bike rim. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world because you can play with anything you can kick.

Now when it comes to HBO talking about racial issues in the NFL, why shouldn't they? How many black owners are there? How many black coaches? How many black scouts, assistants, GM's, etc... They feeling is that if black people can play football, why aren't allowed in the other roles that go along with football that don't involve their athletic ability. Jimmy the Greek's statement about black people seemingly echoes the sentiments that NFL team owners must have that we're good for our athletic ability and that we aren't smart enough to fill the other roles necessary to run a successful team. Are black people, in the owner's eyes, merely race horses, bred to race and run on command? Why shouldn't Larry Johnson have any feelings about how he perceives his race affects his profession? It is true that black coaches have to succeed twice as much as white coaches or they're shown the door much quicker. Look at Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. He was run out of town after turning the worst team in NFL around into yearly competitors. Jon Gruden came in the next year and was lucky enough to win a Superbowl on Dungy's hard work. What has Gruden done since? He's been coaching, for the most part, a losing team for years now and his job isn't on the line. Another example is the lowest paid head coach in the NFL, Lovie Smith. Jim Haslett had one good year and there was a rush to extend his contract. L. Smith has turned around a losing Bears team yet the Bear's organization seemingly believes it was luck and not coaching ability that has their team competitive once again. On the college level, look at Notre Dame and Tyrone Willingham. Willingham was brought in to save face after their first choice turned out to be a fraud. Willingham immeadiately had a winning season with mediocre talent. The following 2 seasons, the lack of talent and young players kept Notre Dame from having a winning record. Notre Dame fired Willingham and bring in Weiss and after only HALF of a winning season (with Willingham's recruits non the less), give him a 10 year deal worth up to $40 million. It's for reasons like this that black athletes still feel the affects of racism and are starting to speak up. I know alot of people still aren't comfortable with dealing with racial issues, but if Larry Johnson and other players are feeling that the playing field still isn't level, then they have the right and responsibility to stand up and speak out.

 

[therod]

I really hate being bossed around by my boss as well.

 

[CT Saints Fan]

I hate that race is an issue only because some people continue to make it an issue. And I don't even know what color I am.

But I want to point out that picnicwithfish has a hilarious avatar!!! +1

 

[LordBane]

I think that HBO does give lot of air to the subject and it has alot to do with Chris Carter. If you go back and look at that episode ( it plays all week) Marino says something about it doesnt matter what color a coach is ..its about winning and the camera cuts to Carter who is in the last half of rolling his eyes. LOL.

I honestly don't see there being that much of an issues there. 7/32 head coaches in the league are black that is 21+% while they make up 12% of the population. I think the media really attempts to propagate the numbers game for its own story building needs. I honestly believe that by holding onto and fighting these little battles over us versus them. We continue a legacy of racial distrust. In my home town my buddy can't bid on a contract for the city because he is white and all our city work goes to black owned companies. The funniest part of it is his wife (whom he is putting through college) is black and his two kids are mixed. She thinks the affiramative action municipal law if as goofy as we do. Heck black companies generally just sub contract the work out to Latino contractors.

I don't mean to have a tirade but man we aren't ever gonna get along until we start viewing our selves as americans.... not Irish/Afro/Latin/Mexican/German/Asian Americans. Everyone wants to make sure "thier own" gets a big enough slice of the pie. THe thing is we are ALL "our own". Things like Anthony Prior's book The Slave Side of Sunday, which is ridiculous beyond words calls out the "institutionalized racism" in pro football, he says the problem is more than skin deep. Prior wrote that the culture of white supremacy is so intense, even African-American players can be heard criticizing black coaches. African-Americans in positions of leadership aren't taken seriously, while "I heard white coaches called 'boss' like we're on a plantation."

No FOOL they called him boss because he is YOUR BOSS !!!!!!

They should take Prior and Kramer and make them be roomates for a year ...tape it....and make it a new reality show.....

 

[GW93]

The Greek's remarks on ante-bellum selective breeding as it applies to 20th century football was just part of what got him in trouble. CBS may have been content to suspend him for a few broadcasts if he had stopped there. The nail in the coffin was his suggestion that black athletes didn't have the intellectual capacity to play QB or be head coaches.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

The Greek's remarks on ante-bellum selective breeding as it applies to 20th century football was just part of what got him in trouble. CBS may have been content to suspend him for a few broadcasts if he had stopped there. The nail in the coffin was his suggestion that black athletes didn't have the intellectual capacity to play QB or be head coaches.

I don't remember him adding the last part. I found the quote and it matches my memory for content:

[FONT=Courier, Times New Roman]"The black is the better athlete," The Greek said. "And he practices to be the better athlete, and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes way back to the slave period. The slave owner would breed this big black with this big black woman so he could have a big black kid. That's where it all started."
[/FONT]
Can someone find a full transcript or something? I've always supported his statement as have a number of black historians and authors writing on the subject. However, it would change my perspective greatly if he added the other part.

 

[staphory]

I don't remember him adding the last part. I found the quote and it matches my memory for content:

[FONT=Courier, Times New Roman]"The black is the better athlete," The Greek said. "And he practices to be the better athlete, and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes way back to the slave period. The slave owner would breed this big black with this big black woman so he could have a big black kid. That's where it all started."[/FONT]

Can someone find a full transcript or something? I've always supported his statement as have a number of black historians and authors writing on the subject. However, it would change my perspective greatly if he added the other part.

Not a transcript, but still relevent...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n3_v20/ai_6536853/pg_1

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

Jimmy the Greek was punished for his comment because it was an idiotic comment not based on logic. It's not even a legitimate theory. The reason you see more black athletes is that for years it was seen as the only way out of poverty. Especially when you consider that black people for the most part of the 20th century weren't given access to a decent education and even those who had a college degree were still forced to work as unskilled laborers. Why do you think there are so many European players in the NBA now? Is it because white players from Europe are more athletic than white players from the U.S.? I would think that it's reasonable to think that the reason has more to do with economics and the value of education in the U.S., especially amongst the caucasian race here. In Europe, especially Eastern Europe, playing basketball is an inexpensive way for people to try to raise above poverty and make enough money to take care of their family. If JtG's theory made any kind of sense, why are there so few black athletes in hockey, tennis, or even rugby? Economics is the reason why. You can make a basketball goal out of a piece of plywood and an old bike rim. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world because you can play with anything you can kick.

Now when it comes to HBO talking about racial issues in the NFL, why shouldn't they? How many black owners are there? How many black coaches? How many black scouts, assistants, GM's, etc... They feeling is that if black people can play football, why aren't allowed in the other roles that go along with football that don't involve their athletic ability. Jimmy the Greek's statement about black people seemingly echoes the sentiments that NFL team owners must have that we're good for our athletic ability and that we aren't smart enough to fill the other roles necessary to run a successful team. Are black people, in the owner's eyes, merely race horses, bred to race and run on command? Why shouldn't Larry Johnson have any feelings about how he perceives his race affects his profession? It is true that black coaches have to succeed twice as much as white coaches or they're shown the door much quicker. Look at Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. He was run out of town after turning the worst team in NFL around into yearly competitors. Jon Gruden came in the next year and was lucky enough to win a Superbowl on Dungy's hard work. What has Gruden done since? He's been coaching, for the most part, a losing team for years now and his job isn't on the line. Another example is the lowest paid head coach in the NFL, Lovie Smith. Jim Haslett had one good year and there was a rush to extend his contract. L. Smith has turned around a losing Bears team yet the Bear's organization seemingly believes it was luck and not coaching ability that has their team competitive once again. On the college level, look at Notre Dame and Tyrone Willingham. Willingham was brought in to save face after their first choice turned out to be a fraud. Willingham immeadiately had a winning season with mediocre talent. The following 2 seasons, the lack of talent and young players kept Notre Dame from having a winning record. Notre Dame fired Willingham and bring in Weiss and after only HALF of a winning season (with Willingham's recruits non the less), give him a 10 year deal worth up to $40 million. It's for reasons like this that black athletes still feel the affects of racism and are starting to speak up. I know alot of people still aren't comfortable with dealing with racial issues, but if Larry Johnson and other players are feeling that the playing field still isn't level, then they have the right and responsibility to stand up and speak out.

i dont think or see there is an issue with black athletes voicing opinions about more black head coaches, the idea of not wanting to follow a white head coach because they dont know the issues black athletes had to go through seems to be a reach - the complaints of LJ and his attitude were voiced by DV with the diapers comment, though i thought that was abit harsh of DV, for LJ to take the attitude he has seems to justify DV's point, a professional goes out and does his job regardless of weather or not they like or respect their boss.

Look at the Parcells - Glenn relationship, BP used to call Glenn "SHE" during pc's - look at where they are now - Glenn seemed to be motivated by BP comments where LJ didnt seem to be - but in the end LJ had a great season after PH's injury under DV.

is all a matter of personalities too i guess, if i remeber correctly ricky williams was upset that HAZ didnt talk to him as a person but as a player when they first met, but by LJ comments Herm Edwards didnt talk to him as a person first but as a player.

it could have been an issue for LJ that he was drafted to be a backup to PH when he clearly had starting potential - i always thought that was a strange pick of the Chiefs but it looks like a great pick now considering the circumstances with PH.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Not a transcript, but still relevent...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_n3_v20/ai_6536853/pg_1

Good write up on it. According to that Jimmy said the reason there weren't more blacks in management roles was because white were holding on to them not that they weren't smart enough. I don't remember that part either but I was pretty young. I have read a number of books on the subject and people would probably be amazed at the number of black academics that agree 100% with JTG.

 

[HennessyRob]

Did they talk about Mike Vick's "Dirty Bird'???????

 

[saints225]

Good write up on it. According to that Jimmy said the reason there weren't more blacks in management roles was because white were holding on to them not that they weren't smart enough. I don't remember that part either but I was pretty young. I have read a number of books on the subject and people would probably be amazed at the number of black academics that agree 100% with JTG.

You can also look back in history and see the number of books that were written that agreed with the theory that the earth was flat. That theory was based on zero facts just like JtG's.

 

[HouDat]

225, do you have concrete proof that there is absolutely zero validity to JtG's assertion that some blacks (specifically, slaves) were bred along these lines? If so, I think quite a few people on this thread would be interested in knowing your source.

 

[antipop]

if we question the number of black owners and coaches in the NFL, is it okay to question the number of white running backs and wide recievers???

 

[RayAnthony]

Jimmy the Greek was punished for his comment because it was an idiotic comment not based on logic. It's not even a legitimate theory. The reason you see more black athletes is that for years it was seen as the only way out of poverty. Especially when you consider that black people for the most part of the 20th century weren't given access to a decent education and even those who had a college degree were still forced to work as unskilled laborers. Why do you think there are so many European players in the NBA now? Is it because white players from Europe are more athletic than white players from the U.S.? I would think that it's reasonable to think that the reason has more to do with economics and the value of education in the U.S., especially amongst the caucasian race here. In Europe, especially Eastern Europe, playing basketball is an inexpensive way for people to try to raise above poverty and make enough money to take care of their family. If JtG's theory made any kind of sense, why are there so few black athletes in hockey, tennis, or even rugby? Economics is the reason why. You can make a basketball goal out of a piece of plywood and an old bike rim. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world because you can play with anything you can kick.

Now when it comes to HBO talking about racial issues in the NFL, why shouldn't they? How many black owners are there? How many black coaches? How many black scouts, assistants, GM's, etc... They feeling is that if black people can play football, why aren't allowed in the other roles that go along with football that don't involve their athletic ability. Jimmy the Greek's statement about black people seemingly echoes the sentiments that NFL team owners must have that we're good for our athletic ability and that we aren't smart enough to fill the other roles necessary to run a successful team. Are black people, in the owner's eyes, merely race horses, bred to race and run on command? Why shouldn't Larry Johnson have any feelings about how he perceives his race affects his profession? It is true that black coaches have to succeed twice as much as white coaches or they're shown the door much quicker. Look at Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. He was run out of town after turning the worst team in NFL around into yearly competitors. Jon Gruden came in the next year and was lucky enough to win a Superbowl on Dungy's hard work. What has Gruden done since? He's been coaching, for the most part, a losing team for years now and his job isn't on the line. Another example is the lowest paid head coach in the NFL, Lovie Smith. Jim Haslett had one good year and there was a rush to extend his contract. L. Smith has turned around a losing Bears team yet the Bear's organization seemingly believes it was luck and not coaching ability that has their team competitive once again. On the college level, look at Notre Dame and Tyrone Willingham. Willingham was brought in to save face after their first choice turned out to be a fraud. Willingham immeadiately had a winning season with mediocre talent. The following 2 seasons, the lack of talent and young players kept Notre Dame from having a winning record. Notre Dame fired Willingham and bring in Weiss and after only HALF of a winning season (with Willingham's recruits non the less), give him a 10 year deal worth up to $40 million. It's for reasons like this that black athletes still feel the affects of racism and are starting to speak up. I know alot of people still aren't comfortable with dealing with racial issues, but if Larry Johnson and other players are feeling that the playing field still isn't level, then they have the right and responsibility to stand up and speak out.

I'm at work so not much time to reply atm. You bring up some good points, but this country in terms of that has made alot of progress in terms of racial equality since those days that JTM spoke of. What LJ said, is simply pure ignorance. What JTM said was also ignorance. So what happened, probably the NAACP called CBS, and got him fired or put some serious pressure on. Others will take LJ's lead, harbor them thoughts theirselves, and if they don't already....will begin to put that in their mind. When that happens, it's essentially another step back for equality. It's ridiculous, we don't live in that time anymore. bottom line-Irvin should be fired. Those were racist comments he made, and i don't think anyone could legitamately disagree. In a nutshell, from Irvin, white people can't be athletic. I think those still whining that they are treated poorly should be reminded there is no White Entertainment Television, No White Miss America contest, and worst of all no NAAWP to call ESPN and start the firestorm to get this chump fired.

Sorry if this was jumbled, again, i'm at work. I have a heck of alot more to say on the subject......i'm sure this thread will be around, so i'll be back.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

You can also look back in history and see the number of books that were written that agreed with the theory that the earth was flat. That theory was based on zero facts just like JtG's.

It's a documented fact that slave masters used selective breeding. The largest and strongest black men were studded out like champion race horses. Owners charged other slavemasters to use them as breeding stock with their female slaves.

In addition slaves that were genetically small or gimped in some way were usless and many times effectively "put down" for lack of a better term as a slave master wasn't going to feed, house and cloth something he couldn't get any work out of.

All of this over the course of 350 years effected the genetic stock of people of African decent in America. There are actually some pretty distinct differences between Americans of African decent and native Africans today.

This theory is supported by documented history. I don't know enough about biology to say if it's accurate or not but it has enough teeth to be accepted by the majority of black scholars in America I have read... and I've read quite a few.