I really don't think we need a cornerback that early (PLEASE READ)... (1 Viewer)

saintsinNO

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...I know I am probably alone here, but I watched J. David in person a few times this year against top competition and yes he did get beat on numerous occasions, but he has some serious potential. He has good ball skills and is a good athlete although he is undersized. It will take him more than a season to completely adjust to the scheme (He will be much improved this year, mark my words). Cornerback is the most instinctive position on the field therefore almost everything that you do is second nature. Coming from a zone scheme he is always thinking zone, but I saw when he put some extra thought into it before the play he was very good. Also we have a very athletic and promising U. Young who everyone was so high on until now for some reason. We should draft a corner, but not in the first. D. Florence would be good and MM will come back strong because that's what type of player he is.
With all that being said I believe we should draft K. Phillips in the first (he is a heck of a player; not the second coming of S. Taylor, but better that what we have and dynamic at an increasingly important position). I think most will agree that C. Bailey is one of the best players in the league, but players with not as much skill, put at the saftey position have more of an impact on the entire defense (Reed(same skill level as Bailey), B. Sanders, Polamolu (SP), ect.). For those hard on David, this was basically his first year. Bullocks is going into his forth year and has never put it together. He is the bigger part of the problem.
Without getting to far fetched into free agency talk we need to bring in at least a solid corner and LB.
In the draft we should get in this order:

1st Rd.:
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2nd Rd.:
72409309.jpg


3rd Rd.:
F3452361.jpg


4th Rd.:
j.jpg


All of theses guys are players and we would be in a great spot if we approach the offseason with this philosophy!!
 

mony_b22

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i see your point but on the opposite end of your opinion.

...I know I am probably alone here, but I watched J. David in person a few times this year against top competition and yes he did get beat on numerous occasions, but he has some serious potential. He has good ball skills and is a good athlete although he is undersized. It will take him more than a season to completely adjust to the scheme (He will be much improved this year, mark my words). Cornerback is the most instinctive position on the field therefore almost everything that you do is second nature. Coming from a zone scheme he is always thinking zone, but I saw when he put some extra thought into it before the play he was very good. Also we have a very athletic and promising U. Young who everyone was so high on until now for some reason. We should draft a corner, but not in the first. D. Florence would be good and MM will come back strong because that's what type of player he is.
With all that being said I believe we should draft K. Phillips in the first (he is a heck of a player; not the second coming of S. Taylor, but better that what we have and dynamic at an increasingly important position). I think most will agree that C. Bailey is one of the best players in the league, but players with not as much skill, put at the saftey position have more of an impact on the entire defense (Reed(same skill level as Bailey), B. Sanders, Polamolu (SP), ect.). For those hard on David, this was basically his first year. Bullocks is going into his forth year and has never put it together. He is the bigger part of the problem.
Without getting to far fetched into free agency talk we need to bring in at least a solid corner and LB.
In the draft we should get in this order:

1st Rd.:
n5253902_33756183_19091.jpg


2nd Rd.:
72409309.jpg


3rd Rd.:
F3452361.jpg


4th Rd.:
j.jpg


All of theses guys are players and we would be in a great spot if we approach the offseason with this philosophy!!

You have players in the nfl that changed teams all the time. Not to many franchise guys but it is the nature of the business. To say that he wasn't the problem is off. Now yes, our safety play has alot to do with it as well is correct. We play a man scheme where our cb's are on a island alot if you cannot be relied on to be in position to make plays and are constantly giving up the deep ball it is a problem.Knowing that u don't have safety help should support that fact. David is an undersize cb that benefited from a system that denied the deeep ball. But when you are undersized an lack elite speed your are at best a nickel. Due to desperation he was forced to be a starter on a team that needed a starter with versatility. Can he be a nickel back yes, a starter no. Now with U. Young i still think he can be a number two but what helps him out is he can run. Which makes up for size. He was our 5th choice as a db and it reflected on his performance.
 
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saintsinNO

saintsinNO

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You have players in the nfl that changed teams all the time. Not to many franchise guys but it is the nature of the business. To say that he wasn't the problem is off. Now yes, our safety play has alot to do with it as well is correct. We play a man scheme where our cb's are on a island alot if you cannot be relied on to be in position to make plays and are constantly giving up the deep ball it is a problem.Knowing that u don't have safety help should support that fact. David is an undersize cb that benefited from a system that denied the deeep ball. But when you are undersized an lack elite speed your are at best a nickel. Due to desperation he was forced to be a starter on a team that needed a starter with versatility. Can he be a nickel back yes, a starter no. Now with U. Young i still think he can be a number two but what helps him out is he can run. Which makes up for size. He was our 5th choice as a db and it reflected on his performance.

I don't know if you have ever played defense on football or not, but it is anything but easy. Changing teams is easy because it is just a different jersey, but changing schemes is very very difficult. Not to make excuses because he did have a very subpar season, but he still needs time. there is very little thinking time on the feild especially at corner so you teach yourself habbit and that isn't something that can be immediately changed. So with all due respect to your evaluation of David I believe you are incorrect.

Edit: If he were a subpar athlete then your assertion that they hide his flaws in Ind. would be correct, but that is not the case. He just learned a different system.
 

GoldRush26

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Well I think all of the uproar about Jason David is going to fall upon deaf ears anyway. David will get another shot to prove himself. Sean Payton will likely get a talk from upper management that goes like "you're going to have to find a way to make this work." That's Tom Benson's money invested in David and I'm sure he didn't get rich by giving up on investments that seem to be failing initially. They aren't going to give up on him that quickly, much to everyone's dismay here. However, McKenzie's injury will force the Saints hand in the free agent market. We have to sign someone. It won't be to replace David, but McKenzie.
 

chad_moore

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The problem is we DO need a cornerback. As much as we'd all love to think MM will be 100%, we have not heard one word validating this. Most have said he could be out for all of next year. I for one and hoping worst case scenario he goes on the PUP and comes back in week 6.

Even if MM was 100%, we'd still need to land a top FA CB and draft one in the first or second. MM, Craft, Thomas are not getting any younger and Payton has already stated they want to get younger on defense. I think Young is going to be something special....he's got starter material written all over him!!!

Either way you look at it, we are going to have to draft a CB in one of the top two rounds, no matter what we do in FA. J. David can't play the #1 spot, U. Young is not ready to take on that role....just yet. That means we have NO ONE else. I don't look for Thomas or Craft to be resigned or make it to the final roster. With a high selection and a quality FA pickup, that would give us:

Best case scenario with MM back 100%:
#1..MM, #2....FA (Florence) #3...J. David #4.....Young #5....High Draft Pick

Realistic Scenario with MM coming back after week 6 from the PUP:
#1...FA, (Samuel) #2....J. David.....which will be changed to MM when he comes back. #3....Young, #4....High Draft Pick #5 Thomas until MM comes back and then released

Worst Case Scenario with MM out all year:
#1 FA (Samuel) #2...J. David #3....Young #4....Thomas #5 High Draft pick and hope he works his way up the depth chart through the season

I am all for drafting either the best DT, LB or CB in round one. Whichever of the two didn't get selected in round 1 for round 2 and finally in round three whatever is left. And yes...I still think we need to make a MAJOR push for Briggs too. Then you've got youth with veteran leadership to make a solid team. I also don't think we should be giving up ANY draft picks for players. We need youth, this draft is heavy on defense and we all know draft picks are MUCH cheaper than veterans towards the salary cap. Get a few QUALITY people and let your draft picks fill in the gaps.
 
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mony_b22

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I don't know if you have ever played defense on football or not, but it is anything but easy. Changing teams is easy because it is just a different jersey, but changing schemes is very very difficult. Not to make excuses because he did have a very subpar season, but he still needs time. there is very little thinking time on the feild especially at corner so you teach yourself habbit and that isn't something that can be immediately changed. So with all due respect to your evaluation of David I believe you are incorrect.

Edit: If he were a subpar athlete then your assertion that they hide his flaws in Ind. would be correct, but that is not the case. He just learned a different system.

To answer your question, yes i played football and yes i played cb, but it is a completely different animal in the pros. U can talk about david in a positive light if u want and give him another chance but what i said is true. Just look at the undersize cbs or smaller in height they have an attribute that David don't speed. Ellis Hobbs, Antoine Winfield, Lito Sheppard,Hall, mcgee,Bly and etc. to name a few are all 5-10 or less in height. David played in a scheme that is predicated to d-line pressure and not giving up the deep ball it is a zone defense where u cover an area of the field. Cb is an instinctive position just like i think u said. If david is as instinctive as u say how can u fall for a playaction on 3rd and long. Things like that is UNEXCUSEABLE. Now can he be a nickel yes but in what we run. From what i saw in game one throughout the season he isn't reliable by himself. If u think he can be relied on by himself without safety help, then u are in the minority as a saints fan. I'm content with im as a 3rd db. Yes we are creatures of habit just like players but it is things that he did that just don't fit what we are trying accomplish. U have had some players that have changed schemes this last season that was succcessful. Prime ex. Smoot, minn. cover 2, Washington, mixed scheme. Bly, cover 2, mixed scheme. Bly had a down year, but still better then David. Point is u can change teams but if u make plays u make plays period.
 
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yankmccobb76

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The problem is we DO need a cornerback. As much as we'd all love to think MM will be 100%, we have not heard one word validating this. Most have said he could be out for all of next year. I for one and hoping worst case scenario he goes on the PUP and comes back in week 6.

Even if MM was 100%, we'd still need to land a top FA CB and draft one in the first or second. MM, Craft, Thomas are not getting any younger and Payton has already stated they want to get younger on defense. I think Young is going to be something special....he's got starter material written all over him!!!

Either way you look at it, we are going to have to draft a CB in one of the top two rounds, no matter what we do in FA. J. David can't play the #1 spot, U. Young is not ready to take on that role....just yet. That means we have NO ONE else. I don't look for Thomas or Craft to be resigned or make it to the final roster. With a high selection and a quality FA pickup, that would give us:

Best case scenario with MM back 100%:
#1..MM, #2....FA (Florence) #3...J. David #4.....Young #5....High Draft Pick

Realistic Scenario with MM coming back after week 6 from the PUP:
#1...FA, (Samuel) #2....J. David.....which will be changed to MM when he comes back. #3....Young, #4....High Draft Pick #5 Thomas until MM comes back and then released

Worst Case Scenario with MM out all year:
#1 FA (Samuel) #2...J. David #3....Young #4....Thomas #5 High Draft pick and hope he works his way up the depth chart through the season

I am all for drafting either the best DT, LB or CB in round one. Whichever of the two didn't get selected in round 1 for round 2 and finally in round three whatever is left. And yes...I still think we need to make a MAJOR push for Briggs too. Then you've got youth with veteran leadership to make a solid team. I also don't think we should be giving up ANY draft picks for players. We need youth, this draft is heavy on defense and we all know draft picks are MUCH cheaper than veterans towards the salary cap. Get a few QUALITY people and let your draft picks fill in the gaps.


Maybe I'm not as optimistic as you but my worst would not really have us signing Samuel. I mean how could that be considered a failure when we sign the top FA corner on the market? I suppose my worst case would be David and Young starting with Craft, Thomas and draft picks in reserve.
 

hardhead233

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It seems to me that cornerback is much deeper and with better quality then last year, meaning there's a good chance they'll still be pretty good CB prospect on the board in the 2nd round.
 

chad_moore

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Maybe I'm not as optimistic as you but my worst would not really have us signing Samuel. I mean how could that be considered a failure when we sign the top FA corner on the market? I suppose my worst case would be David and Young starting with Craft, Thomas and draft picks in reserve.

What I was trying to say in my post was that no matter what....we need more than just one cornerback. If we don't target one in FA and one high in the draft....we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. We can't rely upon David, MM's health, or a second year CB to carry the load. The only way we don't go after a CB in the first three rounds is if we somehow land a top tier FA and there is a MUCH better player slotted for when we pick. Otherwise, you might as well look for another year of getting toasted for the long play. There is no way David, Craft, and Thomas can take us to where we need to be....the playoffs.
 

bergeaux

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I agree with you saintsinNO, we don't need a CB in the first round, we need a ILB or DT. It all starts up front. A good front 7 makes every DB look better.
 

brianw37

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I agree with you saintsinNO, we don't need a CB in the first round, we need a ILB or DT. It all starts up front. A good front 7 makes every DB look better.



:smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: whats sad is that people acutally believe this. a good front seven STILL NEEDS playmakers in the secondary to be a great defense. you cant have one with out the other....... good front seven with weak secondary equals mediocre defense. a good front seven makes a db's job easier but it wont make a crappy secondary look any better.
 

TenTwo

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Maybe I'm not as optimistic as you but my worst would not really have us signing Samuel. I mean how could that be considered a failure when we sign the top FA corner on the market? I suppose my worst case would be David and Young starting with Craft, Thomas and draft picks in reserve.

Hmmm...here's my worst case scenario, simialr but worse:

CB#1 - J Craft
CB#2 - J David
CB#3 - F Thomas
CB#4 - U Young (Fred had a great camp)
CB #5 - Scrubby free agent career nickel CB who we all thought would start
CB#6 - 1st round draft pick

Ya'll are all optomists in my book...
 

saintned

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If we beef up the front seven, the secondary will look so much better!
 
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Whether or not David improves, it's worth it to keep him until his contract is completely played out.

We've already paid a large bulk of his deal. Our ROI is basically 0 (if not negative). We can only go up. Ideally, we'd find a starter in FA and in the draft (until MM is back). That's unlikely. We'll probably get a starter in FA and a nickel to begin with meaning David will play.

But he's had a year in the system and he's making NOTHING for a cornerback. He's still young and athletic, and he spent the first years on a team with a winning mentality. Therefore, his contract is still a bargain. He's making about what nickels make now, and if he happens to improve and play himself into a starter's role, even better.
 

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