I think Something is not right with Alvin Kamara . (1 Viewer)

bryantlaw

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I have watch the last few games again to see if I was seeing the whole picture when it comes to our running game and then it hit me. It’s right there Alvin Kamara seem to be save himself he’s running out of bounds when he could get an few more yards he’s not breaking the single man tackles he did before his injury . Sometimes he look bored and not in the game that onside kick was really good but he Pulled an Cam on that one .That’s why Sean moved him .We need the old Kamara but I think his agent is tell him to play it safe maybe we should pay the man now cause we need him to step it up if we going to win the SB. So should we pay him now and get it out the way?
 

cajundave

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I have watch the last few games again to see if I was seeing the whole picture when it comes to our running game and then it hit me. It’s right there Alvin Kamara seem to be save himself he’s running out of bounds when he could get an few more yards he’s not breaking the single man tackles he did before his injury . Sometimes he look bored and not in the game that onside kick was really good but he Pulled an Cam on that one .That’s why Sean moved him .We need the old Kamara but I think his agent is tell him to play it safe maybe we should pay the man now cause we need him to step it up if we going to win the SB. So should we pay him now and get it out the way?
He’s banged up with knee and ankle.
 

whodat649

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He can’t be to banged up, I spoke to him this morning walking down Royal as he was walking into Politics... Dude had on a pair of berkinstock flip flops and long black socks!
 

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I’d say you have 2 things going on here. First, Kamara is nicked up. That’s pretty much agreed by everyone. The other is Payton is undoubtably telling him to limit the hits and run safe. They have the playoffs. If they beat SF they have a no brain chance for first round bye. Payton, and Kamara both know he needs to be healthy and ready for the playoffs. So I’m sure he’s been told to take it easy and limit the damage.
 

Gumbo's Dad

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I don't think that there is anyone on this forum that would say that Kamara looks the same. Everyone agrees that he is not playing his best football right now. The reason has been highly debated on numerous threads thus far. Is it injury? Is it depression? Is it lack of heart? Is it because he's been told to play differently by coaching, his agent, his family, etc? All have been used to explain what we are seeing with our eyes and the truth is that WE DON'T KNOW.

What I do know is that we will not extend Kamara midseason, and nor should we. So to answer that question by the OP...no.

Kamara has a combination of a high ankle sprain and a knee sprain. He first had the high ankle sprain, he looked pretty good in warm-ups against the Jaguars and as the game went on the ankle began to bother him and he acquired a knee sprain as well. In hindsight...putting him out there against the Jaguars was a big mistake. Compensatory injuries are very common when you start bracing parts of the body or having the player play through injury. Kamara had a high ankle sprain which is typically about a 4-6 week injury. We are now post-6 weeks and he still doesn't look the same. He's not cutting with authority and is really picking his spots to demonstrate leg drive at all. You'll notice that he does demonstrate some leg drive when he is not initiating contact (with big holes to run through), but in tight quarters or once contact is initiated...game over, the leg drive ends. That tells me that he is tentative about either his knee or his ankle. How much of this is physical and how much is mental? This is an excellent discussion because it is very recognized in the sports med literature that players can have lingering effects of an injury after an injury is healed (not saying that it is in Kamara's case). Some players, especially young players that don't have an extensive injury history, have kinesiophobia (fear of particular movements) after an injury and some simply get depressed. Sports psychology is very underrated. You have players who have been great their entire lives, they sustain the first real injury they have had and they are no longer able to do what they do, and they get depressed/frustrated. Sprinkle in INCREDIBLE expectations by fans/an organization/yourself, and maybe add a bit of frustration because your best buddy is having a great time on another team, and viola...you have all of the ingredients for post-injury depression.

Kamara is the best player on our team. How do I know? I did a poll early in the year on this forum and Kamara won in a landslide. He's young and he's talented...and we need to be patient with him and wish him well.
If I remember correctly, you are a doctor of physical therapy? Does it seem to you, not having examined Kamara of course, that he just has too many carries since Ingram left, and his body is not built to be an every down back? If this is the case it would seem that you have to pick and choose when and where to use Kamara (for example, less between the tackles?) What do you think?
 

renegadewa

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I have watch the last few games again to see if I was seeing the whole picture when it comes to our running game and then it hit me. It’s right there Alvin Kamara seem to be save himself he’s running out of bounds when he could get an few more yards he’s not breaking the single man tackles he did before his injury . Sometimes he look bored and not in the game that onside kick was really good but he Pulled an Cam on that one .That’s why Sean moved him .We need the old Kamara but I think his agent is tell him to play it safe maybe we should pay the man now cause we need him to step it up if we going to win the SB. So should we pay him now and get it out the way?
Well of course something is not right with Kamara. He has a high ankle sprain and he'll have it for the rest of the season!!

Do a little research and reading on the topic and you'll understand it a little better.
It's a totally different animal from an ordinary run of the mill ankle sprain. It affects the ligaments and tendons that run from the ankle and up into the calf.

I've had a high ankle sprain once and believe me once was enough. There were times when it felt like my leg was on fire from the knee down and that was just from being on my feet too long so can you imagine what an NFL football player feels like?

It's very painful and the healing process is a VERY slow one and playing and competing in NFL games every Sunday does very little to nothing to further the healing process along.

We are clearly not seeing a 100% Kamara every Sunday and most likely won't for the rest of the season.
 
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If I remember correctly, you are a doctor of physical therapy? Does it seem to you, not having examined Kamara of course, that he just has too many carries since Ingram left, and his body is not built to be an every down back? If this is the case it would seem that you have to pick and choose when and where to use Kamara (for example, less between the tackles?) What do you think?
I think he looked fine earlier in the season. He was leading the league in broken tackles, I believe. He wasn’t getting TDs, which may be due to a number of factors...but on the whole I didn’t have any concerns. He hasn’t been the same since his injury. His usage has actually been down since the injury, so I have a hard time believing that usage is the reason he is slowing down.

I think that his explosion has improved over the past two weeks. We’ve seen him accelerate for long gains, but again, they weren’t highly contested runs. What makes Kamara great is his ability to slip tackles and his receiving ability. I’m not incredibly concerned with his receiving because he has seen two matchups the past two weeks. But he doesn’t break tackles...that’s the biggest issue. I think that he either can’t or is tentative to use the leg drive and contort his body necessary to slip tackles. He’s now 7 weeks removed from his injury...the high ankle sprain (statistically speaking) should be recovered.

If I’m the Saints, I’m requesting that he works with a sports psychologist and I’m testing him in practice. I’m doing whatever I can do possibly to give him confidence that he can use the leg in all scenarios without fear or pain.

I don’t have any personal experience with Kamara, I’m just drawing conclusions based of what I know about his injury,his performance since his injury, and my personal experience/training on the topic. Of course, it’s incredibly flawed...but this is a Saints forum made for these types of discussions, so why not.
 
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BarBar

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Or his apathy. Just my opinion.

really? what makes you think he is apathetic? 30 seconds of sideline video where he wasn't doing what you though he should be? Apathy is a strange deduction when he is literally working through 2 injuries. the Injuries are much more likely to be the cause.

calm down the games are 4 hours long. Every player isn't totally amped up for all 4 hours. People also freak out when Brees is shown sitting alone for 2 seconds.
 

Que Que 6

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really? what makes you think he is apathetic? 30 seconds of sideline video where he wasn't doing what you though he should be? Apathy is a strange deduction when he is literally working through 2 injuries. the Injuries are much more likely to be the cause.

calm down the games are 4 hours long. Every player isn't totally amped up for all 4 hours. People also freak out when Brees is shown sitting alone for 2 seconds.
I may have mistaken apathy for abject fear. Strolling out of bounds in lieu of cutting inside to gain 2-4 extra yards last Thursday. I was there. Not far away. When we needed those yards. I understand protecting the goods and all. But still. Oh, this just took the cake out of a night and several games of mailing it in.
I hope to God that I am proven wrong. The B and G masses are the last to see what the jaded interpret early. But yeah. Explain that one out of existence, please.
 

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On of the things I have noticed is that he is not breaking tackles or causing tacklers to miss. I just believe this is indicative of his ankle injury and he just needs some healing time. His power, explosiveness, agility, and tackle breaking ability looks hampered by his ankle. I think that also plays a part in the mental aspect of his performance as well. I truly believe he is fighting through and will be back to his former self at some point.

I will say that I would love to see more of Mr. Murray. I really have grown to appreciate his running style and ability. He needs more carries early in the game to make a greater impact later in the game. That's my two cents worth.
 

insidejob

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He is not eligible for a new deal until after next year.
He's eligible for a new deal after this season since this is his third year, no?

Oh, wait. I forgot you put me on your ignore list for disagreeing with you over something trivial. Never mind.
 

Infoman

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My personal thoughts - and this is just speculation on my part - but his body language has not been the same all year... I don't see the same "juice" in his play or this demeanor.

He may be still injured a bit too...

Yet, I don't think he's been the same since Mark Ingram left the team if I am being honest... I think he and Mark were good friends, had good chemistry, and challenged each other to be better in a fun way that's just not the same with Murray.

His body language and demeanor look to me like he's not having fun... I think he misses MI and the dynamic they had together... and I think it has weighed on him.

JMO
 

HouseCall

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I think that his explosion has improved over the past two weeks. We’ve seen him accelerate for long gains, but again, they weren’t highly contested runs. What makes Kamara great is his ability to slip tackles and his receiving ability. I’m not incredibly concerned with his receiving because he has seen two matchups the past two weeks. But he doesn’t break tackles...that’s the biggest issue.
I agree with what you said here. The difference seems to be his ability to slip tackles has diminished a bit. I have to think some of that is lingering lower-body injuries...

But I'll also add, and I hope to not get flamed for this... but I think that in many ways, Kamara has been "figured out" by defensive coordinators. Not saying they have the book on him -- just that the way defenses are attacking him has changed the past two years.

Kamara' strength has always been his otherworldly balance and center of gravity. Defenders would attempt to hit him between the waist and shoulders and he'd just bounce off or spin away for additional yardage. Watch how the majority of defenders engage him now...it seems like they are hitting him at the waist and sliding down to his legs and rolling or just diving at his lower legs. This actually knocks him off-balance and disrupts his effectiveness in traffic. It also makes him more susceptible to lower leg injury -- which he's sustained 2 thus far this season.

So I think we are seeing, possibly, the culmination of a few factors --
1. existing injury limiting his effectiveness
2. tentativeness due to existing injury and/or possible concern for re-injury
3. difficulty in adjusting to how he's being engaged by defenders
 

fishing4food

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There is something wrong with his body language. Whether he's nicked up or SP is just saving him for the later games I have no idea. But, you can tell something is just not right with the situation.

Currently, this year, the Saints pass the ball an average of 36 times and run the ball 23 per game. We all know that SP will pass first and almost abandon the run if behind in the score

I would like to see the running of the ball increase going into the playoffs. Kamara and Murray if healthy can be effective and keep DB from trying to pass the team to victory all of the time.
 

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