I will eat all my words (1 Viewer)

[bradley.broussard]

well you got a point there. I cant argue that one. Only thing i can see is that maybe they thought that maybe he didnt do well in our system but they could do something different with him.

 

[bradley.broussard]

i guess its kinda like me thinking that bush would be a beast in the colts offense.

 

[Andrus]

Welcome to the boards, Bradley.

Every regime has to stand on it's own record. I don't feel that it is really fair to blanket label the FO for the past 10 years. I thought since the Payton hire the first offseason was pretty productive, the second... not so much. Let's see how this one goes.

The Saints really have tried to bring in quality players, sometimes offering more financially than other teams that these FA's eventually end up signing with. The player has got to want to play here, and due partially to some circumstances out of the Saints control, sometimes when all things are considered even, other teams, particularly highly visible teams in large markets are just more attractive to them.

Other than with Brees, Loomis has shown that he likes to wait for the big money to be spent by other teams at the onset of free agency and then try to find quality players out of what's left. Can't say as I blame him for that, but the pickings are slim this go around and if you want an impact FA, you are just going to have to pay.

 

[bradley.broussard]

thanks good to finally be a member and not just a guest.
you are right andrus. its not always the FO. It could be the city, the history of not being a winning team, the facilities...etc. But in my eyes and in my own opinion, the FO just does not seem to take that chance to get that one good guy when it could actually make a huge impact on the team even if it costs us alot. But make sure that it is the right guy if you do put the trigger because it will cost you in the long run. But if he does fit the system and he is interest in new orleans and the saints, then just go for it and take a chance. Great FA just dont fall out the sky. I just dont see the saints doing that and the other teams that do seem to be the good ones on a more than average basis.

 

[Andrus]

Yes, but those big market teams have a key attraction that New Orleans doesn't have... Major Corporate Sponsorships! Unless you are Reggie Bush and can draw some national attention, your best bet is doing commercials for the River Parish Disposals out there... not that there is anything wrong with that. Buddy D's RPD's commercials were what I call entertainment.

I think that there is a misperception that the Saints never go after the studs, when in-fact the Saints do chase some of these top-tier free agents, at least those that are a fit... they just have trouble landing them, and it isn't always a matter of not offering enough money. Of course, obviously some FA's are just rediculously over-priced. I mean, how big of a bidding war do you want to get into?

As for Asante' Samuel... if the Saints are in-fact trying to land him, though he may well be somewhat a product of the system in New England, one thing, they coach well in New England. Another is that he has shown that he is not just a zone or man cover corner and he isn't 5'7 and like 6-bits like David. He's legit in my opinion. Too bad we won't likely have a healthy MM to team him up with back there if the stories are true and we do land him.

 

[LSSpam]

I think that there is a misperception that the Saints never go after the studs, when in-fact the Saints do chase some of these top-tier free agents, at least those that are a fit... they just trouble landing them, and it isn't always a matter of not offering enough money. Of course, obviously some FA's are just rediculously over-priced. I mean, how big of a bidding war do you want to get into?.

Asante Samuel himself being a classic case.

Samuel is from Florida, has stated he wants to go to a warm weather team. Tampa Bay recently (comparatively) won a Super Bowl under Jon Gruden, is coming off winning the NFC South. The organization has better facilities and better prestige then the Saints.

Honestly, you have to ask yourself, why wouldn't Samuel choose Tampa over New Orleans? It's the reality we face.

So even though we're clearly pursuing Samuel's, if Tampa decides to even approach our bid, how can we stop him from going to Tampa? Pay 20% more? 50% more? How much money do we have to throw at him?

These players aren't mindless soft drink machines where you only have to stick enough dollars in. They make decisions based on a myriad of factors, not always in our favor. Negotiations are a two party deal.as

 

[Andrus]

Asante Samuel himself being a classic case.

Samuel is from Florida, has stated he wants to go to a warm weather team. Tampa Bay recently (comparatively) won a Super Bowl under Jon Gruden, is coming off winning the NFC South. The organization has better facilities and better prestige then the Saints.

Honestly, you have to ask yourself, why wouldn't Samuel choose Tampa over New Orleans? It's the reality we face.

So even though we're clearly pursuing Samuel's, if Tampa decides to even approach our bid, how can we stop him from going to Tampa? Pay 20% more? 50% more? How much money do we have to throw at him?

These players aren't mindless soft drink machines where you only have to stick enough dollars in. They make decisions based on a myriad of factors, not always in our favor. Negotiations are a two party deal.as

Exactly! And how many times do you think players have used the Saints offers as leverage and bang, they sign with someone else last minute. Kevin Hardy ring a bell?

What can be done? I dunno! The success and exposure of the offense of late can't hurt... I mean, Drew Brees is a draw right there... neither can the fact that a good FA corner or LB stands to have an excellent chance of being a mainstay starter on this defense. I wouldn't exactly describe the competition right now as fierce

 

[Superfan]

The part that really gets me is these players play for a team and have homes all over. Kind of like reggie. he spends time here and then in california. I know other places are nice as well but when someone pays a lot of money and only have to really live in that town during the season isnt all bad. Training camp is only 4 weeks so you got 6-7 months anywhere you want. I can see you grew up somewhere. i know if i played in the nfl i would want to be in New Orleans. But if i was in New York i would still come to New Orleans. I wonder if this resonates with draft picks. I guy never wants to be here and wants to leave. is this why guys leave us and do good else where? Except sullivan and ricky williams who are both mental cases.

 

[LSSpam]

Exactly! And how many times do you think players have used the Saints offers as leverage and bang, they sign with someone else last minute. Kevin Hardy ring a bell?

What can be done? I dunno! The success and exposure of the offense of late can't hurt... I mean, Drew Brees is a draw right there... neither can the fact that a good FA corner or LB stands to have an excellent chance of being a mainstay starter on this defense. I wouldn't exactly describe the competition right now as fierce

Well, like you allude to (with Brees), there are a lot of different potential "buttons" that can be pushed, and not all of them break badly for us.

The thing to keep in mind though (and this is a general statement, not directed at you specifically of course) is it's not always up to our Front Office. It's not always strictly a "offer more money/offer less money" type deal like it is on Madden.

In Asante's case, the one thing we can feel confident about is money appears to be the prime motivating factor, so I think in the final analysis, we can "just offer more money" in his case. I think the question is how much of a premium is he charging us (if he is at all, we don't know that) as opposed to how much of a discount might he be giving say the Bucs, and does that make our offer non-competitive.

We can't continually pay 1.50 on the dollar and expect to stay competitive for very long.

 

[Andrus]

Well, like you allude to (with Brees), there are a lot of different potential "buttons" that can be pushed, and not all of them break badly for us.

The thing to keep in mind though (and this is a general statement, not directed at you specifically of course) is it's not always up to our Front Office. It's not always strictly a "offer more money/offer less money" type deal like it is on Madden.

In Asante's case, the one thing we can feel confident about is money appears to be the prime motivating factor, so I think in the final analysis, we can "just offer more money" in his case. I think the question is how much of a premium is he charging us (if he is at all, we don't know that) as opposed to how much of a discount might he be giving say the Bucs, and does that make our offer non-competitive.

We can't continually pay 1.50 on the dollar and expect to stay competitive for very long.

Yup! Unless you want to spend big to try to make a SB run for a year or two and then face huge cap problems, that's pretty much how you have to play it.