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Five Stars...
I'd take Vick as our QB (1 Viewer)
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oh this should go well...... maybe we could make him our tee-fetcher.. can you imagine how quick he could get on an off the field?
I'd put money on him over fetch monster.
I'd put money on him over fetch monster.
jlam
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Let me know when he learns how to catch, is available for kickoff and punt return duties, and lowers his price tag by about $104 million.
Seriously though, I just can't convince myself that he will ever be a good QB. It would be one thing if he showed improvement in the areas in which he has been lagging over the last five years, but he hasn't in my opinion. The guy has a rocket for an arm, and is as fast as all getout, but I don't see any improvement in his accuracy or his ability to read a defense. His footwork is a mess as he always appears to be throwing off balance due to his instinct to want to run first. I am well aware that most of his recievers are below par and his coaching staff is most likely not the best, but at some point you have to just own up and look at the common denominator.
Look at it this way. How many times during the course of a game does the other team stack 8 or 9 men in the box against the Falcons anticipating the run? You would think that if he had the ability to see this and adjust his offense, as well as the ability to step up and deliver the football to the hot read (both things that are EXPECTED of a quarterback, not just hoped for), that he would have shown it just a little more often over the course of a 5 year career, numerous coaches, and countless recievers.
This is just my opinion of what I see on the field. Obviously, his character is another question mark that has been made more apparent by the recent transgressions. It would seem as though there are issues there as well, and the last thing we want is someone to disrupt the good chemistry we have seemingly developed here.
So, in short, my answer would be a resounding NO if I were ever asked if I would want Vick as the starting QB for my team. Too much teasing with potential and upside, not enough progression and realization of that potential. And I think we've all seen just about enough of that trend.
Seriously though, I just can't convince myself that he will ever be a good QB. It would be one thing if he showed improvement in the areas in which he has been lagging over the last five years, but he hasn't in my opinion. The guy has a rocket for an arm, and is as fast as all getout, but I don't see any improvement in his accuracy or his ability to read a defense. His footwork is a mess as he always appears to be throwing off balance due to his instinct to want to run first. I am well aware that most of his recievers are below par and his coaching staff is most likely not the best, but at some point you have to just own up and look at the common denominator.
Look at it this way. How many times during the course of a game does the other team stack 8 or 9 men in the box against the Falcons anticipating the run? You would think that if he had the ability to see this and adjust his offense, as well as the ability to step up and deliver the football to the hot read (both things that are EXPECTED of a quarterback, not just hoped for), that he would have shown it just a little more often over the course of a 5 year career, numerous coaches, and countless recievers.
This is just my opinion of what I see on the field. Obviously, his character is another question mark that has been made more apparent by the recent transgressions. It would seem as though there are issues there as well, and the last thing we want is someone to disrupt the good chemistry we have seemingly developed here.
So, in short, my answer would be a resounding NO if I were ever asked if I would want Vick as the starting QB for my team. Too much teasing with potential and upside, not enough progression and realization of that potential. And I think we've all seen just about enough of that trend.
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st.randy
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Sorry but...................................................puke. I would take Brooks back before i would accpet Vick.
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Is it April 1 already? What ahppened to Christmas?
bclemms
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This is what I posted on a Falcons board.
The agony of inconsistency
In 2000 the Saints overhauled the roster, Jim Haslett was the new coach, we had a new QB, a great offensive line, Ricky Williams and Deuce, Joe Horn was some WR from Kansas City that didn't play much until he got to New Orleans, Aaron Brooks was some guy we got from Green Bay and the one thing the Ditka era left was good offensive and defensive lines. Well the Saints made the most unlikely of runs beating the Rams in the first playoff victory in franchise history.
Instead of finishing what the new coaching staff and front office started in 2000 they decided that we had a young up in coming team and would stay put with what we have making minor changes. Over the next few years the Saints slowly let their great offensive line become average, decide we didn't need some of our defensive players because Aaron Brooks was the type of QB that could overcome a bad defense.
We started seasons strong, had a good running game in place and defense that a womans volleyball team could take advantage of. It was exciting football and Aaron Brooks could wow you with his play but sometimes he would make you scratch your head and turn your stomach inside out with disgust.
Then it happened. Three consecutive years of heart tearing .500 football. We would start the season on fire, we would think nobody could stop us, we would beat teams like the Tampa Super Bowl team twice and then we would lose to the Arizona Cardinals or the Raiders and justify it as a bad game. Sometimes we would bounce back, sometimes we would not. Sometimes after the bad performance it gave teams a blue print on how to beat Aaron Brooks and the Saints and we would drop 2-3 games we should have won before we realized how to beat this new gameplan we were facing. After AB would have two or three straight bad games he would come out on fire and have a game in which he throws 3 TD's that no other QB in the NFL could have thrown. He would scramble around see an receiver 30 yards downfield and make a throw that could be compared to a laser guided missle for a come from behind win. Sure was fun when we won but when we lost their was the finger pointing, the fighting on the team plane and in practice and a feeling of discomfort when looking at the team.
AB had a shoulder problem and the coaches let him play through it becuase all we had to do was win one of 4 games down the stretch to make the playoffs and all 4 teams were horrible. Jake Delhomme rode the bench questioning why he was there if he wasn't going to play when the starting QB was hurt, the team asked the same questions in the back of their heads and the fans scream for heads to roll as we lose all 4 games to get knocked out of the playoffs.
Our WR's kept dropping balls, our offensive line couldn't block, our coaches were running the wrong plays, our defense was not keeping us in the game, our running game would dissapear and it was everything but the QB.
The horrible thing about an 8-8 team is it makes the coaches, front office and fans think they are only a few key pieces away. Instead of picking early in the draft you are picking in the middle making it even more difficult to improve. Each year some of your talent walks to greener pastures and each year your team does just enough to improve your team.
Each year your wins become less impressive, each year your losses go from close games to blow outs, each year there are different excuses. Yeah, AB had a bad game and threw 3 interceptions but last week he threw 4 TD's and over 300 yards. Our WR's dropped too many balls and he never had the chance, our offensive line wasn't blocking and that is why he was sacked 6 times, our running game never got going, we had tons of penalties and it put AB in bad situations and our defense couldn't even slow other teams down.
Each year we here about how this is going to be the break out year, the year that Aaron Brooks takes this football team by the horns and becomes a leader. Each year we would get all excited because Aaron Brooks would finally put it all together and lead this team.
Sound familiar?
It wasn't until the Saints signed a QB with half the talent of Brooks until we realized what the problem with those teams were. AB had a rocket for an arm, he could pull the ball down and run, he was elusive and had the ability to throw on the run. Brees has a below average arm, he is listed at 6' but somehow I tower over him and I am only 6', he has a gimpy shoulder, he can't run with the football, hell he may be one of the only QB's that can take a 3 step drop then throw the ball as far as he can and still underthrow the receiver.
I already know what your arguments are going to be because I used to be the one arguing against posts like this. Our Wr's have been dropping the ball, our offensive line can't block, our defense can't make a key stop, blah, blah, blah. Your WR's drop the ball because they play in the NFL it happens but guess what, we have 2 WR's that have dropped more passes than anyone on your team. Our offensive line has only given up 8 sacks in 8 games. What you don't realize is how many times players come flying in either unblocked or barely touched and Brees makes one step to avoid them and hits a WR for completion. It is amazing how good Brees makes our line look by simply stepping up in the pocket or sliding away from pressure. The guy is a freaking statue yet Mr. mobile AB would have been creamed. Brees has this awareness that you can not teach. Somehow the pocket can be collapsing on our slow short QB and he can just make these sudden moves and gets the ball out. In reality Aaron Brooks would have been sacked 25-30 times so far this year. Teams don't know what to do against him. Aaron Brooks was great until you blitzed him, that was his weakness. Teams learned this and sent 7-8 guys and he suddenly became a deer in the headlights. If you blitz Brees then he is going to torch you deep or with a dump off pass in the flat. If you don't blitz him he is going to make the proper read, throw a perfectly placed pass to the single coverage or take the 3-4 yard dump off in the flat.
Yeah, but none of this explains how it will make your defense better. Well have you guys watched an interview for both Drew Brees and Aaron Brooks? Drew Brees has this thing called character, he has leadership, he is humble, smart and comes off as a very caring and friendly person. Guys respond to him. They did in High School, they did at Purdue, they did it in San Diego and now they are doing it in New Orleans. He helps the defense off the field and on the sidelines. He oozes with confidence and he is always poised. He never talks about how good he is, he never throws teammates or coaches around the bus much less under them. Brooks was always trying to tell everyone how good he is, he would politely throw people under the bus but made it easy to see how he really felt. When he threw an interception he shrugged it off and jogged to the sidelines smiling. When someone screwed up he wouldn't say anything. He wouldn't tell them it is ok and he certainly wouldn't grab a guy by the face mask and tell him what he needs to be told.
I will never forget what Aaron Brooks did for this franchise yet at the same time it is hard to forgive him for all the years that we look back and say what if. Good luck the rest of the way and I am sure you guys will win a couple games you shouldn't just like you will win a couple you shouldn't. Have fun bashing me, I already know what your going to say because I used to be you.
Sincerely,
Saints fan
http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=197450&hl=
The agony of inconsistency
In 2000 the Saints overhauled the roster, Jim Haslett was the new coach, we had a new QB, a great offensive line, Ricky Williams and Deuce, Joe Horn was some WR from Kansas City that didn't play much until he got to New Orleans, Aaron Brooks was some guy we got from Green Bay and the one thing the Ditka era left was good offensive and defensive lines. Well the Saints made the most unlikely of runs beating the Rams in the first playoff victory in franchise history.
Instead of finishing what the new coaching staff and front office started in 2000 they decided that we had a young up in coming team and would stay put with what we have making minor changes. Over the next few years the Saints slowly let their great offensive line become average, decide we didn't need some of our defensive players because Aaron Brooks was the type of QB that could overcome a bad defense.
We started seasons strong, had a good running game in place and defense that a womans volleyball team could take advantage of. It was exciting football and Aaron Brooks could wow you with his play but sometimes he would make you scratch your head and turn your stomach inside out with disgust.
Then it happened. Three consecutive years of heart tearing .500 football. We would start the season on fire, we would think nobody could stop us, we would beat teams like the Tampa Super Bowl team twice and then we would lose to the Arizona Cardinals or the Raiders and justify it as a bad game. Sometimes we would bounce back, sometimes we would not. Sometimes after the bad performance it gave teams a blue print on how to beat Aaron Brooks and the Saints and we would drop 2-3 games we should have won before we realized how to beat this new gameplan we were facing. After AB would have two or three straight bad games he would come out on fire and have a game in which he throws 3 TD's that no other QB in the NFL could have thrown. He would scramble around see an receiver 30 yards downfield and make a throw that could be compared to a laser guided missle for a come from behind win. Sure was fun when we won but when we lost their was the finger pointing, the fighting on the team plane and in practice and a feeling of discomfort when looking at the team.
AB had a shoulder problem and the coaches let him play through it becuase all we had to do was win one of 4 games down the stretch to make the playoffs and all 4 teams were horrible. Jake Delhomme rode the bench questioning why he was there if he wasn't going to play when the starting QB was hurt, the team asked the same questions in the back of their heads and the fans scream for heads to roll as we lose all 4 games to get knocked out of the playoffs.
Our WR's kept dropping balls, our offensive line couldn't block, our coaches were running the wrong plays, our defense was not keeping us in the game, our running game would dissapear and it was everything but the QB.
The horrible thing about an 8-8 team is it makes the coaches, front office and fans think they are only a few key pieces away. Instead of picking early in the draft you are picking in the middle making it even more difficult to improve. Each year some of your talent walks to greener pastures and each year your team does just enough to improve your team.
Each year your wins become less impressive, each year your losses go from close games to blow outs, each year there are different excuses. Yeah, AB had a bad game and threw 3 interceptions but last week he threw 4 TD's and over 300 yards. Our WR's dropped too many balls and he never had the chance, our offensive line wasn't blocking and that is why he was sacked 6 times, our running game never got going, we had tons of penalties and it put AB in bad situations and our defense couldn't even slow other teams down.
Each year we here about how this is going to be the break out year, the year that Aaron Brooks takes this football team by the horns and becomes a leader. Each year we would get all excited because Aaron Brooks would finally put it all together and lead this team.
Sound familiar?
It wasn't until the Saints signed a QB with half the talent of Brooks until we realized what the problem with those teams were. AB had a rocket for an arm, he could pull the ball down and run, he was elusive and had the ability to throw on the run. Brees has a below average arm, he is listed at 6' but somehow I tower over him and I am only 6', he has a gimpy shoulder, he can't run with the football, hell he may be one of the only QB's that can take a 3 step drop then throw the ball as far as he can and still underthrow the receiver.
I already know what your arguments are going to be because I used to be the one arguing against posts like this. Our Wr's have been dropping the ball, our offensive line can't block, our defense can't make a key stop, blah, blah, blah. Your WR's drop the ball because they play in the NFL it happens but guess what, we have 2 WR's that have dropped more passes than anyone on your team. Our offensive line has only given up 8 sacks in 8 games. What you don't realize is how many times players come flying in either unblocked or barely touched and Brees makes one step to avoid them and hits a WR for completion. It is amazing how good Brees makes our line look by simply stepping up in the pocket or sliding away from pressure. The guy is a freaking statue yet Mr. mobile AB would have been creamed. Brees has this awareness that you can not teach. Somehow the pocket can be collapsing on our slow short QB and he can just make these sudden moves and gets the ball out. In reality Aaron Brooks would have been sacked 25-30 times so far this year. Teams don't know what to do against him. Aaron Brooks was great until you blitzed him, that was his weakness. Teams learned this and sent 7-8 guys and he suddenly became a deer in the headlights. If you blitz Brees then he is going to torch you deep or with a dump off pass in the flat. If you don't blitz him he is going to make the proper read, throw a perfectly placed pass to the single coverage or take the 3-4 yard dump off in the flat.
Yeah, but none of this explains how it will make your defense better. Well have you guys watched an interview for both Drew Brees and Aaron Brooks? Drew Brees has this thing called character, he has leadership, he is humble, smart and comes off as a very caring and friendly person. Guys respond to him. They did in High School, they did at Purdue, they did it in San Diego and now they are doing it in New Orleans. He helps the defense off the field and on the sidelines. He oozes with confidence and he is always poised. He never talks about how good he is, he never throws teammates or coaches around the bus much less under them. Brooks was always trying to tell everyone how good he is, he would politely throw people under the bus but made it easy to see how he really felt. When he threw an interception he shrugged it off and jogged to the sidelines smiling. When someone screwed up he wouldn't say anything. He wouldn't tell them it is ok and he certainly wouldn't grab a guy by the face mask and tell him what he needs to be told.
I will never forget what Aaron Brooks did for this franchise yet at the same time it is hard to forgive him for all the years that we look back and say what if. Good luck the rest of the way and I am sure you guys will win a couple games you shouldn't just like you will win a couple you shouldn't. Have fun bashing me, I already know what your going to say because I used to be you.
Sincerely,
Saints fan
http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=197450&hl=
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thundar1084
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I'd take Vick anyday. Vick gives you the advantage that when a play breaks down he can still come up with a BIG play. You can't teach that. His WR's are killing him. What's amazing is that everyone knows that his WR's are horrible and they keep blaming Vick.
As great as Peyton is one of the knacks against him is that he is not mobile. Once a play breaks down the only thing he can do is force a bad pass or throw the ball away.
A better question would be if Colston, Henderson, Horn, Copper, and Miller were dropping balls like crazy would we blame them or Brees?
Even though Brees threw some very good passes Sunday, he also threw some very poor ones that were still caught by our receivers. That catch by Horn was a classic and the one that Miller pulled off the turf was spectacular. Receivers have to help their QB.
Also a good coach gets his underacheiving players to step up and perform better, not blame his star player for their mishaps. If those WR's were on our team I don't think they'd be around too long. Payton would give them their walking papers quick fast and in a hurry.
As great as Peyton is one of the knacks against him is that he is not mobile. Once a play breaks down the only thing he can do is force a bad pass or throw the ball away.
A better question would be if Colston, Henderson, Horn, Copper, and Miller were dropping balls like crazy would we blame them or Brees?
Even though Brees threw some very good passes Sunday, he also threw some very poor ones that were still caught by our receivers. That catch by Horn was a classic and the one that Miller pulled off the turf was spectacular. Receivers have to help their QB.
Also a good coach gets his underacheiving players to step up and perform better, not blame his star player for their mishaps. If those WR's were on our team I don't think they'd be around too long. Payton would give them their walking papers quick fast and in a hurry.
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SuperSaintJohn69
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I wouldn't have Vick on our team if he played for free. I guess you think we should have kept Brooks too.
ColortheCoast
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Almost blasphemous? You took it way past that buddy!
st.randy
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Did you watch the game sunday?????????? You can blame the receivers all you want but it took Vick till deep into the second quarter to actually hit a receiver. It's a chicken/egg argument. The receivers suck because the QB sucks, and the QB sucks because the receivers suck. But it starts with vick! Do you think ANYONE on the Saints team wants to go to the huddle and face Brees after they blew a play? Hell no, they can't stand to let that man down. Do you think the Atlanta receivers have ANY respect for thier QB???? No way. They didn't forget how to catch! They get to spend all day busting thier arses waiting for that man to get his proverbial stuff together, and by the time he does it, these guys minds are in the locker room. NO passing attack will ever thrive with that man leading the team.
BTW, I would like to know which of the great vick attributes are not available with Brees. He keeps plays alive with his legs, but he knows that he runs for the opportunity to get the ball down the field. He came out of college as a leading rusher as well, he just doesn't HAVE to do it.
bclemms
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What you seem to be missing is the fact that 80% of the plays in the NFL don't break down. It is the 80% of the time that Vick kills his team not the 20% when the play breaks down.
SuperSaintJohn69
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I totally agree about the footwork part. I was watching him Sunday, and most of the time, he doesn't even get settled before he throws the football. On the other hand if you notice Brees, it's like watching poetry in motion. He is always in position, and accurate with his throws. Forget Vick, he just isn't what I would call an outstanding QB. He is mediocre at best.
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