If Drew stays, do you think Sean Payton has to change his offensive strategy? (1 Viewer)

CajunSaint08

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If Drew stays, which I believe he will, do you think Sean Payton will change his offensive strategy from a pass happy offense to a run oriented offense?

Sean Payton, since 2006, and Drew as his QB, has always used the pass to set up the run. And Drew has been phenominal. The Saint's offense has always been in the top 10 every year. But, with Drew getting up in age, and to use his assets to their fullest capcity, wouldn't a run first strategy to set up the pass work better? There is no question that Drew is still one of the most accurate (if not the most accurate) QB's in the league. So a 70% run, 30% pass strategy would tremendously help Drew.

Could our offensive line handle that much of a change? Or would they have to completely retool?

And if Teddy Bridgewater becomes the next QB, I think a run first oriented offensive plan would help him also.

Now if Taysom becomes the next QB, you could run either. What are your thoughts?
 

dutar76

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I get that we did not have a top 5 offense this season... it was ranked #9 IIRC.
But we were 13-3, not 3-13 or 7-9, or even 9-7. There's nothing to complain about in my opinion and definitely
no reason to go completely changing what we're doing.

Even 2011 when our offense was unstoppable... we still lost in the playoffs.

I agree we should've used Murray more and could definitely use another receiving threat. But 70% run, 30% pass? That's not going to happen.
 
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Our offense lacks the consistency that it once had. I wouldn’t chalk it up to Drew’s arm as some
seem to be doing. I would like to see us get a real solid #2 receiver. I think that’s the missing ingredient. Cook helped us alot towards the end of the season and with the addition of another receiver it would put us on another level offensively. In the Minnesota game after Thomas’s 7, Harris had 2 catches and was second most from wr’s. Kamara had 8 and Cook 5 (didn’t he get hurt?). Depth at the receiver position is what we need.
 
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St. PJ

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Sean has drastically changed his offensive philosophy starting at least 3 years ago. Those seam routes that were the bread and butter of the Saints offense in 2009 / 2011 peak years are nearly absent. I dont remember the last time i saw 4 receiving targets running verticals up the seam and forcing a defense to pick their poison.

Its been at least 3 years since Sean has forced a defense to defend the entire field. 3 years ago i couldnt figure out why. Today, i've come to accept it is because Drew is no longer consistently accurate on those throws.

If you've not figured that out or noticed it last year or this year, i don't know what to tell you.

The AK plays we expext from satellite back, the screens we expect to see from big back, and other staples of the offense are becoming less and less effective because the back 7 can player closer to the LOS and not have a healthy respect for viable threat of deep balls.

So if any adjustment needs to be made, its stop with the cute crap and get more physical, because that tried and tired set of plays everyone expects are no longer effective when playing playoff caliper defenses.

That, and he desperately needs to fill some vacant WR roles that are integral to his full offense. Ever since Willie Snead got in the doghouse, that Lance Moore role his been vacant, and we lost 70 3rd down conversions per year from that WR role. The Stills/Meachem role has left a lot to be desired as well. Thomas fills the possession/Colston role. You could say Ginn fills the Devery role, but Ginn shouldnt be on this roster. TQS could probably fill the Stills/Meachem role, but between injury and learning curve, Sean and Drew dont trust him enough to feature him. Id scrap Ginn and putt Harris in the Devery role, but its a moot point if you can't get the ball to him in stride.

Dont have to change oline to become dominant in run game. Nearly all linemen are better at run blocking. That's simply a matter of mindset and commitment as a play caller. And using the right RB for the right type of run. Stop trying to make Bush/Kamara do Deuce/Ingram type runs when you have a healthy Murray averaging over 5 ypc
 
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Masterplan

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I get that we did not have a top 5 offense this season... it was ranked #9 IIRC.
But we were 13-3, not 3-13 or 7-9, or even 9-7. There's nothing to complain about in my opinion and definitely
no reason to go completely changing what we're doing.

Even 2011 when our offense was unstoppable... we still lost in the playoffs.

I agree we should've used Murray more and could definitely use another receiving threat. But 70% run, 30% pass? That's not going to happen.
By making this statement you must be content with just winning the division and to never win a SB. Because the fact that Drew is limited(whether you want to believe it or not)
 

DJ1BigTymer

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Sean has drastically changed his offensive philosophy starting at least 3 years ago. Those seam routes that were the bread and butter of the Saints offense in 2009 / 2011 peak years are nearly absent. I dont remember the last time i saw 4 receiving targets running verticals up the seam and forcing a defense to pick their poison.

Its been at least 3 years since Sean has forced a defense to defend the entire field. 3 years ago i couldnt figure out why. Today, i've come to accept it is because Drew is no longer consistently accurate on those throws.

If you've not figured that out or noticed it last year or this year, i don't know what to tell you.

The AK plays we expext from satellite back, the screens we expect to see from big back, and other staples of the offense are becoming less and less effective because the back 7 can player closer to the LOS and not have a healthy respect for viable threat of deep balls.

So if any adjustment needs to be made, its stop with the cute crap and get more physical, because that tried and tired set of plays everyone expects are no longer effective when playing playoff caliper defenses.

That, and he desperately needs to fill some vacant WR roles that are integral to his full offense. Ever since Willie Snead got in the doghouse, that Lance Moore role his been vacant, and we lost 70 3rd down conversions per year from that WR role. The Stills/Meachem role has left a lot to be desired as well. Thomas fills the possession/Colston role. You could say Ginn fills the Devery role, but Ginn shouldnt be on this roster. TQS could probably fill the Stills/Meachem role, but between injury and learning curve, Sean and Drew dont trust him enough to feature him. Id scrap Ginn and putt Harris in the Devery role, but its a moot point if you can't get the ball to him in stride.

Dont have to change oline to become dominant in run game. Nearly all linemen are better at run blocking. That's simply a matter of mindset and commitment as a play caller. And using the right RB for the right type of run. Stop trying to make Bush/Kamara do Deuce/Ingram type runs when you have a healthy Murray averaging over 5 ypc
Welcome to the club.



...me years ago
Therein lies the problem. We are limited on what we can do on offense because we no longer have elite guards to protect Drew and his passing lanes. Couple that with the fact that defenses are choking the middle of the field and making it hard for the offense to get going. Drew is good enough and I'm not saying he is done, but he's not the same guy he was in 2011; he is older.

I also believe that we could be better on offense because I believe we DO have a talented receiver corps. I read over and over on this site that our receivers cannot get separation. There is Zero chance of getting separation when all the routes are 10 yard stick/curls. We do not challenge defenses outside the numbers enough and I don't know how we can fix that going forward.

Now, having said that, our offensive problems pales in comparison to our pathetic defense. If we had an average defense, we would still have a winning record because like you said, Drew Brees is still good enough.
 

dutar76

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By making this statement you must be content with just winning the division and to never win a SB. Because the fact that Drew is limited(whether you want to believe it or not)

I"m content for my team to be a contender 3 years in a row. The goal is to win the division and make the playoffs. Then it becomes a one game season the rest of the way. In the playoffs, I'm all in, wanting my team to win. I just don't fall to pieces and start trashing them and wanting to blow it up and start over when it don't go our way.

edit: and I'll add, that the only thing I feel the team sort of owes me... or that I expect, is that do everything they can to build a team, roster and coaches, that can be a contender when at all possible. Understanding the salary cap somewhat, as well as free agency and the draft process... I can honestly say that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis, and Ireland, and Fontenot, etc... have done this. I don't feel I have anything to be upset about.
 
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Tony1Saintfan

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I"m content for my team to be a contender 3 years in a row. The goal is to win the division and make the playoffs. Then it becomes a one game season the rest of the way. In the playoffs, I'm all in, wanting my team to win. I just don't fall to pieces and start trashing them and wanting to blow it up and start over when it don't go our way.

edit: and I'll add, that the only thing I feel the team sort of owes me... or that I expect, is that do everything they can to build a team, roster and coaches, that can be a contender when at all possible. Understanding the salary cap somewhat, as well as free agency and the draft process... I can honestly say that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis, and Ireland, and Fontenot, etc... have done this. I don't feel I have anything to be upset about.
Man have you messed up. You came on here and spoke like a reasoned well thought out Saints fan. The SSF has been looking for ways to dump our hof QB like they can be found under every tree in the woods.
 

Pocket Hercules

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Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.
 

Tony1Saintfan

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Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.
Great breakdown and spot on analysis.
 
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SuperKid

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I think there can be a middle ground; yes being a successful, winning organization in the NFL is a tremendously difficult task. At the same time now I think a certain level of disappointment, and frustration is acceptable considering the end result.

If we are just looking at this 1 game occurrence sure it's an over reaction to one bad game. The disappointment and cause for concern comes from the end result of the last 3 seasons as a cumulative. Fans expected more sense of urgency, and an inspired effort from this team once they got back to the post-season. This was an opportunity to right the wrongs of the last two years. The 2017 loss was acceptable, because it was a young team, a fluky once in a life time play happened; a rookie made a mistake.. 2 seasons later the team is more experienced, they have play-off games under their belts.. you don't expect the same mistakes to happen in a win or go home type atmosphere. (the slow Offensive starts, the turnovers, the Defensive lapses late in games) It's like none of that play-off experience showed for anything, because the same script plays out.

So no I don't think it's time for panic, and you don't need to blow things up and start over. You have to be smart with your off-season, and really finesse this cap. The window isn't shut yet, but it's not open forever and you have to make the most of your opportunities because no one is promised to get back to where you were last season.. you have to fight, and claw and earn your way back...
 

Loose Cannon

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Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.

How many flukes in a row need to happen before they're no longer a series of "one in a million" and a pattern that would indicate that your team just isn't built for the playoffs?

Awful lot of flukes and weird circumstances. You could do the same exact thing above for the Rams and first Vikings game. Bottom line is this team, and particularly the offense, has played well below its regular season performance three years in a row.

Lots of flukes. Lots. At some point you have to sit back and realize "I just wrote seventeen paragraphs excusing an inexcusable playoff loss and I could do the same thing for the last three years in a row" is just excuse making and not an objective analysis. It's not all on Brees, but some of it is.

I don't know the answer. I don't think "get rid of Brees" is it quite yet. But it's not burying your head in the sand and pretending Brees' limitations don't create some issues in the playoffs.
 
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DSnfla

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Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.
FINALLY someone that gets it !!! I had began to lose my faith that SR forum members were smarter on here than the average teams forum with some of the moronic posts since the Vikes game. This post is EXACTLY what happened . You would think that we backed our way into the playoffs just barely winning games and we have to overhaul the entire team . that DB can't complete a 20yrd pass cause he lost his arm. . Some of you need to go and watch DB's 2019 highlights and see him throw the ball 40-45 yrds in the air on target to a WR . Really some of you need breathalyzers on your keyboards
 

BarBar

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Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.


Thank you thank you. Finally a reasonable post that displays understanding. It's more probable that Drew had a bad game because he misses Mark Ingram than because of his age.

As for the OP I don't think 70/30 is gonna work for us as a main offensive philosophy. BUT when the run game is working, SP MUST start sticking with it. He just has to become a more patient play caller. It's ok to grind it out if you are getting 5+ yards a carry. When the pass isn't working but the run is.....just stick to it for crying out loud. If its 70/30 or whatever who cares. The 49ers just won a blowout against GB and barely threw a pass all game.
 

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