If Drew stays, do you think Sean Payton has to change his offensive strategy? (2 Viewers)

[Trey W.]

You can definitely tell who the older fans of this team are, those of us who suffered through horrible seasons, missing the playoffs year after year after year. Watching QB’s who wouldn’t even start for the XFL or the Europe League that went under. It wasn’t until 2000 that the Saints finally won their FIRST ever playoff game and now we’re are in the Playoffs almost every season and have been to the NFC Championship game quite a few times.

So those of you complaining about an incredible 13-3 season where our Probowl QB missed 5 games and losing a playoff game think we need to overhaul the offense are delusional and spoiled.

We all want our Team to win the Super Bowl every year but that’s unrealistic. There will always be games where other teams matchup better, or plan better, or have more will; it happens. But to not be proud of a 13-3 team just because they lost to a team that out coached and out played them is wrong.

 

[Loose Cannon]

You can definitely tell who the older fans of this team are, those of us who suffered through horrible seasons, missing the playoffs year after year after year. Watching QB’s who wouldn’t even start for the XFL or the Europe League that went under. It wasn’t until 2000 that the Saints finally won their FIRST ever playoff game and now we’re are in the Playoffs almost every season and have been to the NFC Championship game quite a few times.

So those of you complaining about an incredible 13-3 season where our Probowl QB missed 5 games and losing a playoff game think we need to overhaul the offense are delusional and spoiled.

We all want our Team to win the Super Bowl every year but that’s unrealistic. There will always be games where other teams matchup better, or plan better, or have more will; it happens. But to not be proud of a 13-3 team just because they lost to a team that out coached and out played them is wrong.

ok boomer

 

[texasjefe]

Payton does not do balanced run games, and that's a killer weakness in the playoffs with Drew unable to carry the team. And with Payton's crystallized style, it's up to Loomis to provide an elite offensive line, especially in the interior, with depth. Draft 3 solid O-Lineman with 3 of the 5 picks if Brees is back.

Brees back means more regular season stat-whoring with a short passing game. Wins, stats, and bloody Mary pitchers make for fun Sundays in the fall.

But against a good defense in the playoffs, hard to see anything new with a QB who has no deep arm strength, is not mobile, and when the interior is taken away from his stepping up, the offense is shut down.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I think that the challenge is trying to speculate where Brees is going and how quickly he’ll get there. Last year around this time, I think that there was a pretty significant group of Saints fans who refused to believe that Brees’s arm strength is reducing. Now, I think that percentage is pretty small. But I still think that there is a rather large group of Saints fans (maybe 50% or so) who believe that his limitations can be worked around by building up his supporting cast. You know...get a better #2, get a better OG, etc.

But here’s where I’m at...I think that Drew Brees is on the decline, and just as you saw with Brady and Manning when they fell off a cliff, it happens like a thief in the night. I am very skeptical that the 2020 will be as good as the 2019 Brees. So if he does drop off, where does that leave us...when we were clearly not good enough last year. Will improving the supporting pieces be enough to offset further decline by Brees? That’s my concern. If you can convince me that Brees won’t get worse from last season to next, I’d sleep much easier at night.

So with the question at hand...absolutely, the Saints have to become more conservative. Brees has to change...he has to take fewer risks and limit his audibles away from running plays. They should be planning to win like they did with Bridgewater next year...it’s not sexy but it’s necessary.

 

[CajunSaint08]

So you are saying Payton cannot run his offense with Brees and that payton and the rest of the offense has to change to benefit Brees?

This has not been Paytons offense for several years now, it is not even close to Paytons original offense. If you cannot stretch the field it becomes very difficult to establish a run game. If you cannot stretch the field it becomes very difficult for receivers to find holes under the coverage. When receivers cannot get into holes in the defensive coverage then they are going to have to battle more for contested receptions and there will be more incompletions.

Does this describe the saints offense the last couple seasons?

As for receivers, Payton and the saints traded higher quality receivers for defensive playmakers. They took the approach that Brees could make receivers good so they did not need a roster full of top tier receivers. The other thought is that the luck they had with taking unknows and making them receiver weapons got into their head and they keep reaching for receivers they can make into the next Colston, Meacham, Still, Lewis, Graham, Henderson, etc. I think they are so lured in by potential that they lost talent for right now.

No, not saying "Payton cannot run his offense with Brees." But since Brees is getting older, and is still probably the most accurate QB in the league, why not try and preserve Brees for as long as you can and run the ball more. Also, by running, you are protecting him from sacks and getting hit or pressured. Just a thought.

I agree (and I have probably drank this Kool-Aid) that "they took the approach that Brees could make receivers good so they did not need a roster full of top tier receivers." In hindsight, not necessarily the best approach.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Payton does not do balanced run games, and that's a killer weakness in the playoffs with Drew unable to carry the team. And with Payton's crystallized style, it's up to Loomis to provide an elite offensive line, especially in the interior, with depth. Draft 3 solid O-Lineman with 3 of the 5 picks if Brees is back.

Brees back means more regular season stat-whoring with a short passing game. Wins, stats, and bloody Mary pitchers make for fun Sundays in the fall.

But against a good defense in the playoffs, hard to see anything new with a QB who has no deep arm strength, is not mobile, and when the interior is taken away from his stepping up, the offense is shut down.

We're basically the mid 2000s Phoenix suns. Look great in the regular season, then in the playoffs when things get more physical, they underperform.

 

[Swimmer]

One point I don't see being addressed is the playoff depth on our team. Except for the Pats, no team has as many starters with playoff game experience over the past 3 years as the Saints. This should be a huge advantage come playoff time. The team laid an egg. Coach Pete was blown away when I saw him after the game saying, "The team simply did not show-up. I don't get it. This is a veteran playoff team and they didn't show-up until it was too late. If you play around for 3 quarters in the playoffs and then try comebacks, very few are going to work against playoff-caliber teams."

For a minute, I'd like to forget the Brees conversation and ask the billion-dollar question, how can that be? How can a vet savvy team not show-up for a playoff-caliber game?

 

[bobad]

During the season, we have to concentrate on our strengths, improve on our weaknesses, and never be predictable. Same in the offseason.

13-3 and losing to a better defensive team? Hell yeah, I'll take it.

 

[Swimmer]

Payton does not do balanced run games, and that's a killer weakness in the playoffs with Drew unable to carry the team. And with Payton's crystallized style, it's up to Loomis to provide an elite offensive line, especially in the interior, with depth. Draft 3 solid O-Lineman with 3 of the 5 picks if Brees is back.

Brees back means more regular season stat-whoring with a short passing game. Wins, stats, and bloody Mary pitchers make for fun Sundays in the fall.

But against a good defense in the playoffs, hard to see anything new with a QB who has no deep arm strength, is not mobile, and when the interior is taken away from his stepping up, the offense is shut down.

texasjefe - this is scaring me. We are agreeing on a bunch of points recently - lol. Fun aside - I really like what you said. And I think what St PJ was spot-on also!

 

[FootballLady]

Nope, CSP is too stubborn to do that

How can you say that when Coach Payton has adjusted his offense?

 

[guillermo]

For a minute, I'd like to forget the Brees conversation and ask the billion-dollar question, how can that be? How can a vet savvy team not show-up for a playoff-caliber game?

This is quiet simple: they were tired, very tired.

And for this, I am not only talking about physically tired. They were also mentally tired after such a stressful season.

You can clearly see it in the secondary. It is not that Dennis Allen changed the defense or the players forgot how to play. When you are exhausted, you think more than react. It slows you down. Communication gets harder. I think that is the reason why Lattimore was so frustrated. The secondary (him or someone else) missed a basic assignment.

Same happened with the offensive line. if you watched the game you will see some obvious missing assignments.

Coaching is more then art and science, it is also about timing. You can try to motivate players, prepare them with a great plan, but you can't defeat tiredness.

 

[SunshinePumper]

We're basically the mid 2000s Phoenix suns. Look great in the regular season, then in the playoffs when things get more physical, they underperform.

And to think, the NFL coach I always used to compare Mike D'antoni to was Andy Reid. And where is he now?

 

[Trev]

Sean has drastically changed his offensive philosophy starting at least 3 years ago. Those seam routes that were the bread and butter of the Saints offense in 2009 / 2011 peak years are nearly absent. I dont remember the last time i saw 4 receiving targets running verticals up the seam and forcing a defense to pick their poison.

Its been at least 3 years since Sean has forced a defense to defend the entire field. 3 years ago i couldnt figure out why. Today, i've come to accept it is because Drew is no longer consistently accurate on those throws.

If you've not figured that out or noticed it last year or this year, i don't know what to tell you.

The AK plays we expext from satellite back, the screens we expect to see from big back, and other staples of the offense are becoming less and less effective because the back 7 can player closer to the LOS and not have a healthy respect for viable threat of deep balls.

So if any adjustment needs to be made, its stop with the cute crap and get more physical, because that tried and tired set of plays everyone expects are no longer effective when playing playoff caliper defenses.

That, and he desperately needs to fill some vacant WR roles that are integral to his full offense. Ever since Willie Snead got in the doghouse, that Lance Moore role his been vacant, and we lost 70 3rd down conversions per year from that WR role. The Stills/Meachem role has left a lot to be desired as well. Thomas fills the possession/Colston role. You could say Ginn fills the Devery role, but Ginn shouldnt be on this roster. TQS could probably fill the Stills/Meachem role, but between injury and learning curve, Sean and Drew dont trust him enough to feature him. Id scrap Ginn and putt Harris in the Devery role, but its a moot point if you can't get the ball to him in stride.

Dont have to change oline to become dominant in run game. Nearly all linemen are better at run blocking. That's simply a matter of mindset and commitment as a play caller. And using the right RB for the right type of run. Stop trying to make Bush/Kamara do Deuce/Ingram type runs when you have a healthy Murray averaging over 5 ypc

There’s been multiple times lol 2-3 of Cooks TDs were on 4 verticals

 

[BigFrosty]

I'd like him to implement the game plan when Teddy was playing. The Panthers and Falcons ran a similar quick strike, run heavy, ball-control type offense that used to drive me bananas in their past winning seasons. I think Drew could run the wheels off that type of O.

 

[sfidc3]

Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.

Well put....I think SP will evaluate all the things that went wrong (and right) and adjust the offense accordingly....The offensive line is a strength, they are a very good run blocking line (they excelled at this when Teddy was the starter) and are being underutilized in that area, as is Lat Murray....I really think SP knows this....Great balance equals great offense...