If Drew stays, do you think Sean Payton has to change his offensive strategy? (1 Viewer)

[SaintStephen1]

Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.

Agree with everything except “rare” description of clock mismanagement. Has become the rule rather than the exception for Payton in big games that he mismanages the clock and/or timeouts.

 

[SaintStephen1]

I think the center of the discussion should not be if Drew stays or leave.

I am almost sure that Drew will stay and also think that Hill will be his successor. Two totally different quarterbacks, that will face the same challenge.

I think the problem now is how to adjust to attack 11 players aligned within 20 yards after the line of scrimmage.

Just think about this: Drew is no longer throwing passes over 30 yards. Safeties are playing tighter. And same thing will happen once Taysom takes the offense. Defenses will try to concentrate near the line of scrimmage, being discipline with their gap responsibility.

It has been almost 3 years since we don't go deep, that ship sailed a while ago (Teddy had more deep throws, but not many).

What I can see is to try to keep a stellar offensive line (here, Peat's replacement as well as signing Ram long term are the priorities). We should also have a stronger tight end group. Baltimore has 3 very versatile tight ends that can block. The vikings have two. We may be looking for ways to use 3 tight end sets more often.

And regarding receivers, I think that we need to improve with a couple of players that can keep drives alive. Good rout runners, strong with good hands.

I don't think we would look for another speedster to replace Ginn. Harris and Smith should be used in that matter based on their capacity.

We need to get stronger in the middle, close to the line. This is where we are playing now, and it seems it will be in the near future.

Part of the whole 11 guys within 20 yards has to do with lack of game breaking speed at WR.

 

[renegadewa]

I just looked at the first DB highlight clip on youtube
:32 pass 45yrd in the air 1:31 40yrds in the air 3:29 35yrds in the air . Is DB gonna throw it 65 yrd down the field in the air at this stage ? Probably not nor does he need to most successful long passes travel about 30-50 yrds in the air. I also couldn't find the stat on how many long passes were dropped by Saints WR . If you are one of the people that think that opposing D's crowd the line or play closer in cause they think DB can't throw long anymore , that's just about the most absurd thing I've ever heard and I'd love to have opposing DC think that way

That's a pretty bad example......................at :32 Ginn had to wait for the ball where if Brees hits him in stride he scores.
At 1:31 he's throwing to a stationary target.
At 3:29 the receiver is coming back for the ball.

I love Brees as much as anyone but if you think he still throws the deep ball with the same velocity and accuracy then you're kidding yourself. It was a staple of the Saints offense for a lot of years but it's just not there anymore.

While you're looking for the stat that counts how many times receivers have dropped the ball you might want to look up how many times receivers have had to stop or slow down and wait for the ball on a deep route.

The size of the field that defenses have to defend against the Saints now has shrunken considerably the last couple of seasons because no one fears the deep ball anymore no matter if it's because the Saints don't have a deep threat or if it's the fact that Brees can't get the ball out there anymore.

 

[DSnfla]

That's a pretty bad example......................at :32 Ginn had to wait for the ball where if Brees hits him in stride he scores.
At 1:31 he's throwing to a stationary target.
At 3:29 the receiver is coming back for the ball.

I love Brees as much as anyone but if you think he still throws the deep ball with the same velocity and accuracy then you're kidding yourself. It was a staple of the Saints offense for a lot of years but it's just not there anymore.

While you're looking for the stat that counts how many times receivers have dropped the ball you might want to look up how many times receivers have had to stop or slow down and wait for the ball on a deep route.

The size of the field that defenses have to defend against the Saints now has shrunken considerably the last couple of seasons because no one fears the deep ball anymore no matter if it's because the Saints don't have a deep threat or if it's the fact that Brees can't get the ball out there anymore.

Makes no difference if the target is stationary or coming back to the ball, the ball traveled 35-45 yrds in the air, and I did say that he's probably not gonna throw the ball 65 yrds in the air , nor does he need to

 

[renegadewa]

Makes no difference if the target is stationary or coming back to the ball, the ball traveled 35-45 yrds in the air, and I did say that he's probably not gonna throw the ball 65 yrds in the air , nor does he need to

Ok then when was the last time that Brees hit a receiver in stride with any consistency?

As I said I love Brees as much as anyone but we knew this was coming.

It's a fact that defenses no longer fear that Brees will beat you with the deep ball and because of that the field that they have to defend has gotten smaller.

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

One thing that is evident is that Sean Payton has now developed a strong trend to excel in regular season games and then get beat in the playoffs , it started in 2011. We should have been in the superbowl then.

So are you seriously blaming Sean for the loss in 2011? If you are you might want to consider going back and watching that game again.

 

[Saint Kamara]

Yeah the 36 ppg we averaged over the last 7 games of the regular season isn't acceptable.

We need a major overhaul to our approach.

 

[Christian Bale]

I think this post is a year old ... Payton DID change the offense in 2019 to shorter passes and a run game and reliance on defense. Execution in some of those areas faltered towards the end, but the game plan to build around Drew's limitations in throwing further downfield than he has in the past, has already been implemented. and it works, Drew had strong numbers, the Saints finished 13-3, and Teddy was seamlessly integrated utilizing that game plan.

The only reason for Payton to change anything would be if Taysom Hill was the starter. Otherwise the system is currently perfect for Drew or Teddy.

 

[DSnfla]

Ok then when was the last time that Brees hit a receiver in stride with any consistency?

As I said I love Brees as much as anyone but we knew this was coming.

It's a fact that defenses no longer fear that Brees will beat you with the deep ball and because of that the field that they have to defend has gotten smaller.

Did you really say "Ok then when was the last time that Brees hit a receiver in stride with any consistency?" He does that EVERY game . He's probably THE most accurate QB in NFL history . the fact that we really don't have a reliable deep threat at WR and haven't had one since Brandon Cooks would be the ONLY reason opposing D's might not respect the deep ball as much . You are delusional sir

 

[mr.t]

I get that we did not have a top 5 offense this season... it was ranked #9 IIRC.
But we were 13-3, not 3-13 or 7-9, or even 9-7. There's nothing to complain about in my opinion and definitely
no reason to go completely changing what we're doing.

Even 2011 when our offense was unstoppable... we still lost in the playoffs.

I agree we should've used Murray more and could definitely use another receiving threat. But 70% run, 30% pass? That's not going to happen.

60P-40R is okay with me.

 

[dutar76]

60P-40R is okay with me.

60/40 is about what we do when we have a lead and/or are in a tight game.

Most of the fan complaints about not running the ball seem to follow games where we were playing from behind. That and games where 1st down penalties put us in a lot o long down and distance mode. I understand the "we need to run the ball more" take, but sometimes we need to consider the context.

 

[renegadewa]

Did you really say "Ok then when was the last time that Brees hit a receiver in stride with any consistency?" He does that EVERY game . He's probably THE most accurate QB in NFL history . the fact that we really don't have a reliable deep threat at WR and haven't had one since Brandon Cooks would be the ONLY reason opposing D's might not respect the deep ball as much . You are delusional sir

I may be delusional but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that Brees can still do the things that he was doing 5 years ago and then wallow in denial about it.

When I said when was the last time Brees hit a receiver in stride I was referring to deep routes 30, 40, or 50 yards down the field.

Even if the Saints had a deep threat WR who could blow the top off the defense what good would it do? Brees was something like 2-9 on deep routes last season and it wasn't solely because the intended receiver dropped the ball.

I love and respect Brees as much as anyone so don't even pretend to preach to me about how great he is. I've been watching the same player that everyone else has been watching for almost 2 decades!! He's not super human and playing QB in the NFL is a perishable skill. We ALL knew this was coming.

 

[FWtex]

60/40 is about what we do when we have a lead and/or are in a tight game.

Most of the fan complaints about not running the ball seem to follow games where we were playing from behind. That and games where 1st down penalties put us in a lot o long down and distance mode. I understand the "we need to run the ball more" take, but sometimes we need to consider the context.

The offense does need to be more balance if they want to have continued success with all the short passes. I am not talking about mixing in a couple runs so that you can say you ran run plays, they need to commit to using run plays as a weapon of the offense and as though they expect to pick up chunks of yards and intimidate a defense.

 

[DSnfla]

I may be delusional but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that Brees can still do the things that he was doing 5 years ago and then wallow in denial about it.

When I said when was the last time Brees hit a receiver in stride I was referring to deep routes 30, 40, or 50 yards down the field.

Even if the Saints had a deep threat WR who could blow the top off the defense what good would it do? Brees was something like 2-9 on deep routes last season and it wasn't solely because the intended receiver dropped the ball.

I love and respect Brees as much as anyone so don't even pretend to preach to me about how great he is. I've been watching the same player that everyone else has been watching for almost 2 decades!! He's not super human and playing QB in the NFL is a perishable skill. We ALL knew this was coming.

No one has their head in the sand but you have blinders on to the fact that maybe cause DB can't hit a WR in stride 65yrds in the air 4 times a game that that's whats wrong with our offense . when in reality there is not much wrong with our offense other than a healthy AK an upgrade at LG and and more speed at the WR position Maybe you should check #10 on this chart

2018-19 Deep Ball Project: All Throws of 21-Plus Air Yards
Rk	Name	Team	GP	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Acc	Att	Acc%
1	Andrew Luck	IND	18	28	60	46.7%	36	60	60.0%
2	Russell Wilson	SEA	17	31	61	50.8%	36	61	59.0%
3	Matt Ryan	ATL	16	22	58	37.9%	32	58	55.2%
4	Baker Mayfield	CLE	14	24	51	47.1%	28	51	54.9%
5	Patrick Mahomes	KC	18	34	81	42.0%	44	81	54.3%
6	Philip Rivers	LAC	18	22	52	42.3%	28	52	53.8%
7	Marcus Mariota	TEN	14	11	28	39.3%	15	28	53.6%
8	Jared Goff	LAR	19	27	53	50.9%	28	53	52.8%
9	Carson Wentz	PHI	11	14	36	38.9%	19	36	52.8%
10	Drew Brees	NO	17	22	48	45.8%	25	48	52.1%
11	Derek Carr	OAK	16	18	40	45.0%	20	40	50.0%
	Lamar Jackson	BAL	9	6	14	42.9%	7	14	50.0%
	Nick Mullens	SF	8	6	14	42.9%	7	14	50.0%
14	Kirk Cousins	MIN	16	17	45	37.8%	22	45	48.9%
15	Blake Bortles	JAX	13	13	31	41.9%	15	31	48.4%
16	Alex Smith	WAS	10	9	25	36.0%	12	25	48.0%
17	Aaron Rodgers	GB	16	24	70	34.3%	33	70	47.1%
18	Deshaun Watson	HOU	17	18	45	40.0%	21	45	46.7%
19	Andy Dalton	CIN	11	12	28	42.9%	13	28	46.4%
20	Dak Prescott	DAL	18	18	48	37.5%	22	48	45.8%
21	Mitchell Trubisky	CHI	15	22	64	34.4%	29	64	45.3%
22	Nick Foles	PHI	7	9	20	45.0%	9	20	45.0%
23	Eli Manning	NYG	16	19	49	38.8%	22	49	44.9%
24	Ryan Fitzpatrick	TB	8	12	26	46.2%	11	26	42.3%
25	Case Keenum	DEN	16	18	50	36.0%	21	50	42.0%
26	Matthew Stafford	DET	16	18	44	40.9%	18	44	40.9%
27	Josh Allen	BUF	12	13	50	26.0%	20	50	40.0%
28	Josh Rosen	ARI	14	11	41	26.8%	16	41	39.0%
29	Cam Newton	CAR	14	7	29	24.1%	11	29	37.9%
30	Tom Brady	NE	19	14	48	29.2%	18	48	37.5%
31	Joe Flacco	BAL	9	9	35	25.7%	13	35	37.1%
32	Sam Darnold	NYJ	13	10	48	20.8%	17	48	35.4%
33	Ben Roethlisberger	PIT	16	20	62	32.3%	21	62	33.9%
34	Ryan Tannehill	MIA	11	8	32	25.0%	10	32	31.3%
35	Jameis Winston	TB	11	9	34	26.5%	10

 

[Who Dat MCFC]

Pocket Hercules Sums it up perfectly -when DB went out against the Rams we’d have gladly taken the way things panned out -bar the sheetshow for 3 quarters against the Vikes