If Drew stays, do you think Sean Payton has to change his offensive strategy? (1 Viewer)

[BarBar]

Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.

Thank you thank you. Finally a reasonable post that displays understanding. It's more probable that Drew had a bad game because he misses Mark Ingram than because of his age.

As for the OP I don't think 70/30 is gonna work for us as a main offensive philosophy. BUT when the run game is working, SP MUST start sticking with it. He just has to become a more patient play caller. It's ok to grind it out if you are getting 5+ yards a carry. When the pass isn't working but the run is.....just stick to it for crying out loud. If its 70/30 or whatever who cares. The 49ers just won a blowout against GB and barely threw a pass all game.

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

How many flukes in a row need to happen before they're no longer a series of "one in a million" and a pattern that would indicate that your team just isn't built for the playoffs?

Awful lot of flukes and weird circumstances. You could do the same exact thing above for the Rams and first Vikings game. Bottom line is this team, and particularly the offense, has played well below its regular season performance three years in a row.

Lots of flukes. Lots. At some point you have to sit back and realize "I just wrote seventeen paragraphs excusing an inexcusable playoff loss and I could do the same thing for the last three years in a row" is just excuse making and not an objective analysis. It's not all on Brees, but some of it is.

I don't know the answer. I don't think "get rid of Brees" is it quite yet. But it's not burying your head in the sand and pretending Brees' limitations don't create some issues in the playoffs.

There’s no way you can dispute that the game in Minnesota was a fluke and our defense allowed that to happen. Last year we had the no call. This year we had a bad game at the worse possible time. I don’t see the wheels falling off our offense and saying they aren’t built for the playoffs is ridiculous. I personally believe that if you talked to every player and coach on the team they would say that they didn’t do enough individually and that’s probably closer to the truth this season. But the previous two not so much.

 

[EvilMike]

Most of you guys are overthinking this. Winning it all is hard even when you have a historic year and everything otherwise seems to be working. Lamar the MVP and good ol' #12 can sling that rock all the way up and down the seams on a rope and all over the field. They're both watching the SB from home just like Drew, and neither one of them put up 46 points when they had their turn against SF. Hell, good ol' #12 didn't reach 30 points in two meetings combined.

Guys, we just didn't play well enough to win at the wrong time. You're driving yourselves and everyone else crazy. Dear God, I hope nobody in Drew's circle reads this (currently) embarrassing board. Here is what it took for our 13-3 team to lose in overtime:

- A perfect storm scenario where for only the third time in NFL history, a 13-3 team played during wild card weekend. Meanwhile, Minnesota had the benefit of resting their starters during week 17 while we fought for a bye. If you think that the deflation of even having to play a WC game at all combined with playing a rested team did not have an impact on the game, you probably also think that Drew's arm isn't strong enough to beat elite NFL defenses. The line play for the first three quarters of that game supported the scenario described above.

- A brilliant strategy by MIN to move their defense ends inside against the softer part of our offensive line featuring an OG in Peat who was playing in just his second game after returning from an extended injury absence. It took us a while to adjust.

- The first two-turnover game by our team the entire season.

- The first lost fumble by Drew the entire season, on a flukey hit from behind after a WR ran the wrong route and Drew had to pull the ball down instead of getting it out on schedule.

- A rare missed FG by Lutz at the end of the first half.

- Rare clock mis-management at the end of our last drive in regulation, ultimately creating a pre-snap penalty costing us more time. A situation that should have given us anywhere from 3-5 shots at the endzone to win in regulation instead saw us end the game with a timeout in our pocket.

- A surprisingly solid game from Kirk Cousins where he didn't try to do too much and let Dalvin Cook (with fresh legs from his own extended absence) do the heavy lifting.

- A missed OPI by Rudolph on the winning TD grab. I'm not even close to suggesting that the officials cost the Saints the game - the Saints lost the game for themselves - but it was a missed call in a big moment and factored in with all the mistakes that the Saints made.

It's pretty clear that Drew is still one of the best QB's in the game and far from the weak link on our team. There are many areas we can get better and thankfully the draft is set up for us to grab a quality WR2 this time. Winning in the playoffs will still come down to playing better than the opponent, overall talent, a little luck, and matchups. #9 is still more than good enough to get the job done.

I have to disagree with you on the "rare" clock mis-management, it seems to happen a lot. Also, you left out the D that folds like origami in the last 2 minutes of a game.

 

[No2DC]

As most people get older, they become more set in their ways. That said, I don't foresee SP changing his pass first impulse. The QB discussion aside, I think we should contiue to build the lines and not be dependent on a QB carrying the team. Drew will retire soon and it's in the best interest of the team for the pressure not to be on the QB. As great as Elway was, TD got the team over the hump.

 

[Kenna Kid]

One thing that is evident is that Sean Payton has now developed a strong trend to excel in regular season games and then get beat in the playoffs , it started in 2011. We should have been in the superbowl then.

 

[fishing4food]

In 2009 the Saints averaged 33 passing attempts and rushed 17 times. Ten years later, nothing has changed. Still the same average and they're trying to accomplish that with a 41 year old QB. Also, our loses in the playoffs have also come down to poor tacking and giving up the big play at the end. Very frustrating.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

I have to disagree with you on the "rare" clock mis-management, it seems to happen a lot. Also, you left out the D that folds like origami in the last 2 minutes of a game.

Meh, I watch a lot of games aside from the Saints and feel we do a pretty darn good job of preserving clock and two-minute scoring compared to the rest of the league. Drew's historic performance in GWD's speaks for itself and doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Totally agree that our defense often craps the bed in two minute situations, but against MIN, they put us in a position to come back and win in the 4th quarter.

 

[UltraSaints]

We need to be like the 49ers Offense. If it only means passing it 6 times one game then so be it, Unfortunately we know this won’t happen.

 

[gregh]

I get that we did not have a top 5 offense this season... it was ranked #9 IIRC.
But we were 13-3, not 3-13 or 7-9, or even 9-7. There's nothing to complain about in my opinion and definitely
no reason to go completely changing what we're doing.

Even 2011 when our offense was unstoppable... we still lost in the playoffs.

I agree we should've used Murray more and could definitely use another receiving threat. But 70% run, 30% pass? That's not going to happen.

you c an be 16-0 every season, if you dont advance in the playoffs it doesnt matter.

 

[guillermo]

I think the center of the discussion should not be if Drew stays or leave.

I am almost sure that Drew will stay and also think that Hill will be his successor. Two totally different quarterbacks, that will face the same challenge.

I think the problem now is how to adjust to attack 11 players aligned within 20 yards after the line of scrimmage.

Just think about this: Drew is no longer throwing passes over 30 yards. Safeties are playing tighter. And same thing will happen once Taysom takes the offense. Defenses will try to concentrate near the line of scrimmage, being discipline with their gap responsibility.

It has been almost 3 years since we don't go deep, that ship sailed a while ago (Teddy had more deep throws, but not many).

What I can see is to try to keep a stellar offensive line (here, Peat's replacement as well as signing Ram long term are the priorities). We should also have a stronger tight end group. Baltimore has 3 very versatile tight ends that can block. The vikings have two. We may be looking for ways to use 3 tight end sets more often.

And regarding receivers, I think that we need to improve with a couple of players that can keep drives alive. Good rout runners, strong with good hands.

I don't think we would look for another speedster to replace Ginn. Harris and Smith should be used in that matter based on their capacity.

We need to get stronger in the middle, close to the line. This is where we are playing now, and it seems it will be in the near future.

 

[dutar76]

you c an be 16-0 every season, if you dont advance in the playoffs it doesnt matter.

So the only way to have a good team is to win the superbowl every year? Anything less is a failure?
I don't understand that thinking in any sport. But that's just my view. There's 32 team in the NFL, and
31 of them are not going to win the Superbowl. Of course I want my team to be the one team that does,
and I want that every year. But I don't look at it as a failure when they don't. Am I satisfied just getting
close? Not really, but I'm at least thankful that my team has consistently been one of the few contenders
for each of the past 3 years.

The alternative is to be one of the teams in perpetual re-build. (Browns, Jets, Dolphins, etc...) or one of
the teams that seem to always be "almost" a contender. (Cowboys, Bucs, Broncos, Chargers). And I'm
also glad we're not one of those teams that have a good year every now and then. (Bengals, Cardinals,
Giants). To go 12-4 and one fluke play away from the NFCCG (with a very very young and very very
injury depleted team), then going 13-3 and be one play (worst call ever in professional sports) away from
a Superbowl appearance, and then 13-3 losing in OT. (in a game we really shouldn't have had to play) In
back to back to back years... That itself is very hard to accomplish in the modern era of football.

What matters and doesn't matter is subjective. Every fan has their own take. Above is mine.

 

[Floridalsusaintsfan]

If Drew stays, which I believe he will, do you think Sean Payton will change his offensive strategy from a pass happy offense to a run oriented offense?

Sean Payton, since 2006, and Drew as his QB, has always used the pass to set up the run. And Drew has been phenominal. The Saint's offense has always been in the top 10 every year. But, with Drew getting up in age, and to use his assets to their fullest capcity, wouldn't a run first strategy to set up the pass work better? There is no question that Drew is still one of the most accurate (if not the most accurate) QB's in the league. So a 70% run, 30% pass strategy would tremendously help Drew.

Could our offensive line handle that much of a change? Or would they have to completely retool?

And if Teddy Bridgewater becomes the next QB, I think a run first oriented offensive plan would help him also.

Now if Taysom becomes the next QB, you could run either. What are your thoughts?

Sean Payton is the best thing to happen to the Saints. Here is something I think many of us has noticed though. Payton gets bored with the run game. I watched the 49's against the Packers and the 1st thing that came to mind was "could I ever envision Payton being that patient with running the football even though it's winning the game?" Not yet but who knows.

 

[SRAddict]

Nope, CSP is too stubborn to do that

 

[dutar76]

I think the center of the discussion should not be if Drew stays or leave.

I am almost sure that Drew will stay and also think that Hill will be his successor. Two totally different quarterbacks, that will face the same challenge.

I think the problem now is how to adjust to attack 11 players aligned within 20 yards after the line of scrimmage.

Just think about this: Drew is no longer throwing passes over 30 yards. Safeties are playing tighter. And same thing will happen once Taysom takes the offense. Defenses will try to concentrate near the line of scrimmage, being discipline with their gap responsibility.

It has been almost 3 years since we don't go deep, that ship sailed a while ago (Teddy had more deep throws, but not many).

What I can see is to try to keep a stellar offensive line (here, Peat's replacement as well as signing Ram long term are the priorities). We should also have a stronger tight end group. Baltimore has 3 very versatile tight ends that can block. The vikings have two. We may be looking for ways to use 3 tight end sets more often.

And regarding receivers, I think that we need to improve with a couple of players that can keep drives alive. Good rout runners, strong with good hands.

I don't think we would look for another speedster to replace Ginn. Harris and Smith should be used in that matter based on their capacity.

We need to get stronger in the middle, close to the line. This is where we are playing now, and it seems it will be in the near future.

Kamara, Thomas, and Cook. (and once in a while Taysom) That was our offense now. Our OL was one of the better OLs in the league. Drew is not going to be THAT guy every week anymore. I think he'll still be the guy that puts the team on his shoulders and
carries them to a win a "few" games a season for the remainder of his career. Just not as often as he has in the past.

For the rest of Drew's career and afterward with his successor or successors (until / IF we land another "great" QB), we're going to need the skill players... the play makers... to win games for us. During that time, the QBs job is simply to get the ball to those guys.
We're spoiled fans. We used to have the guy like Pat Mahommes. Now we don't and who knows if or when we ever will again. And we watch Pat Mahommes and are jealous. THAT USED TO BE US! Sad to say, it's going to take years for that to wear off.

That being said, we're winning with Drew and Drew is still in the upper echelon of active QBs. He's extremely good at getting the ball to our play makers. It's just that we don't currently have enough of them. What I see is a lot of fans not wanting to accept that even though he's not what he used to be, he's still one of the best. AND other fans blindly believing that it's time to move on from Drew because our next QB is going to be what Drew used to be. (which is extremely unlikely)

 

[FWtex]

If Drew stays, which I believe he will, do you think Sean Payton will change his offensive strategy from a pass happy offense to a run oriented offense?

So you are saying Payton cannot run his offense with Brees and that payton and the rest of the offense has to change to benefit Brees?

This has not been Paytons offense for several years now, it is not even close to Paytons original offense. If you cannot stretch the field it becomes very difficult to establish a run game. If you cannot stretch the field it becomes very difficult for receivers to find holes under the coverage. When receivers cannot get into holes in the defensive coverage then they are going to have to battle more for contested receptions and there will be more incompletions.

Does this describe the saints offense the last couple seasons?

As for receivers, Payton and the saints traded higher quality receivers for defensive playmakers. They took the approach that Brees could make receivers good so they did not need a roster full of top tier receivers. The other thought is that the luck they had with taking unknows and making them receiver weapons got into their head and they keep reaching for receivers they can make into the next Colston, Meacham, Still, Lewis, Graham, Henderson, etc. I think they are so lured in by potential that they lost talent for right now.