If I say yes to the public option, will stuff like this go away? (2 Viewers)

I wouldn't have a problem with it, no.

Of course judging by your response song above I don't think you get the point that it wasn't a song about a side in the debate -- it was a song about the issue. It doesn't say "Obama's plan is the way to go" nor does it say "hey let's keep the status quo" -- it says both sides agree something needs to be done about healthcare reform but we can't figure out what.

In the end it doesn't even make a difference -- it's a private school. Tons more private schools teach their kids things much more partisan than this can even be misconstrued to be and nobody says anything about it.

I know my song was a little bit more one sided then the song -- although some on this forum stated that they thought it did have a political side -- but in any case my main point is that I dont agree with this new trend -- a while back they had children singing and Obama song --
 
Some facts and background, for those who may be interested in same:

From Wikipedia:

Ron Clark is an American teacher who has worked with disadvantaged students in rural North Carolina and Harlem, New York City. He is known for his books on teaching children in Middle Schools. . . . Clark's latest project is the Ron Clark Academy, a private non-profit school in Atlanta, Georgia where students follow a unique curriculum. The school also gives students opportunities for international travel and offers training workshops for teachers to learn more about Clark's teaching methods.
***
Clark's first year spent in Harlem was the focus of a 2006 made-for-TV movie, The Ron Clark Story, (also known as The Triumph in Australia, the UK and the Philippines), starring Matthew Perry. . . . [He has two appearances on the Oprah Winfrey Show, where Ms. Winfrey named him as her first "Phenomenal Man." . . . Clark received the 2001 Disney Teacher of the Year award [1] from Disney, who owns Hyperion Books. In 2007, Ron's story was turned into a TNT Johnson and Johnson Spotlight Special Film, starring Matthew Perry, and garnering an Emmy nomination for Executive Producers Howard Burkons, Adam Gilad and Brenda Friend.
***
The Ron Clark Academy, housed in a renovated red brick warehouse [2], is located in southwest Atlanta, Georgia, and accommodates fifth through eighth grade students. Students are from low wealth to high wealth families. . . . Students in debate class at Ron Clark Academy created a song about the 2008 U.S. presidential election, "Vote However You Like.", to the same beat and melody of "Whatever You Like" by T.I. On October 31, 2008, the "Students of Ron Clark Academy" were named the ABC Person of the Week by ABC World News Tonight. As a result, they have also been invited to perform at the 2009 Inauguration

From You Can Vote However You Like (TIME, October 30, 2008):

With the finish line of a bruising, interminable presidential race in sight, there aren't too many things Republicans and Democrats still agree on. But cute — and wildly talented — kids are one of them, and the seventh-graders at Atlanta's Ron Clark Academy certainly qualify. Their paean to the political process, "You Can Vote However You Like," inspired by rapper T.I.'s hit "Whatever You Like," has swept across the Internet over the past few days, amassing nearly 300,000 hits on YouTube and booking them upcoming appearances on ABC's Good Morning America and BET's 106 & Park. After learning of their performance, T.I. himself stopped by the school.
***
He says given their interest in current events, getting the 30 seventh-graders to express their interest in politics through song was easy. "When you use music, kids get excited," he says. It shows. Clark says his kids wrote the lyrics and choreographed the dance for "You Can Vote However You Like" on their own, and practiced for only a few days. Their rap, in which half the group extols McCain's merits while the other half backs Obama, shows a savvy grasp of the campaign's messages. . . . Watch it. You will smile.

Teacher labeled terrorist, child abuser after students sing for healthcare on CNN (Oct. 8, 2009):

An unknown person who has previously attacked the Wikipedia pages of U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy and John Travolta's deceased son has now vandalized the page of an educator after his students performed a song and dance routine advocating health care reform on CNN. . . . school founder Ron Clark's wikipedia page had been attacked---the middle-school educator is described as "an Anti-American socialist propagandist who has abused ignorant minorities in rural North Carolina and Harlem, New York City. He is known for his brainwashing of children in Middle Schools." . . .
 
I did not say they were soley through Teachers -- my point is that this is disturbing to say the least -- if you think its allright then thats your opinion --
I mean we can no longer say the pledge of allegiance unless we strike the word God from all references -- but this is okay --
personally I would not want my kid at that age group to be taught to sing political songs no matter how just the cause is -- maybe they should hold a political pageant where the school kids sing, dance and perform to different political causes -- like save the whales, save the rain forest, --

I see you've been here since 2005, can you kindly link me to your post where you elicited this same amount of outrage when children sang at the White House in support of George W. Bush and his response to Katrina during late 2006?

K Thnx Bye.


EDIT: this applies to anyone else getting pissy as well.
 
I'm all for teaching kids current events, even those issues that are hot topics...let the kids choose a side and create a class debate on pro or con: approve public option health care. What an awesome, real life lesson these kids would learn! I LOVED doing stuff like that in high school. But the ages of the kids in this video...come on. The majority of them have no clue what they're singing about. And why should they? Let the high school kids in civics classes study it and debate it; I think that would be great and would allow them to learn about something that is affecting them and their families. But this is appropriate for high school age because they are capable of understanding it and therefore creating an educated opinion on it. I just have a problem teaching elementary aged schoolkids stupid songs about political issues that they have no clue about, and that they probably don't care about, because REALLY, what could they possibly be getting out of it? JMO.
 
I just have a problem teaching elementary aged schoolkids stupid songs about political issues that they have no clue about,

kids in 4th and 5th grade can understand in fundamental ways how the political affects their educational experience

I don't think we should wait until students are of high school age to start introducing the political aspects of education

I remember when I was student teaching a Physical Education 5th grade class and we were discussing nutrition and we had a discussion about the nutrition available to them at school and how other people are making decisions about what they eat.

We also talked about the Presidential Fitness Test that was going on at the school for some of the grades and the importance of physical fitness and why it's important to officials and schools and families and administrators why students should be in good shape.

And we were able to roll that into a discussion regarding what their food is made of, what contradiction existed between the rhetoric of the Presidents Fitness Challenge at school with regard to the food that was being served in the cafeteria.

Now, are these kids capable of dissecting details and nuances and discussing the edu-nutritional supply chain or district contracts or the money that's at stake? Of course not.

But I think adopting a completely hands-off approach, waiting until kids get to high school is also a disservice to these kids.

The 6th grade class that I was also teaching were tackling issues of class and entitlement with our unit on the Titanic and were looking at the perils of despotic fascism in their unit on The Diary of Anne Frank.

I think it's entirely appropriate to orient kids to these sorts of discussions - it's like anything else - provide the basics, a foundation of simple concepts that can be applied with increasing complexity as time goes on.

I mean, we teach Calculus to 12th graders - and the approach is not "Well.... these elementary kids are too young to understand calculus so let's not teach math until their minds can understand calculus"

It's obvious kids can understand mathematical concepts at steps all along the way to Calculus.

It's similar here - I think kids can observe, understand, and comment on things that might surprise you.
 
kids in 4th and 5th grade can understand in fundamental ways how the political affects their educational experience

I don't think we should wait until students are of high school age to start introducing the political aspects of education

I remember when I was student teaching a Physical Education 5th grade class and we were discussing nutrition and we had a discussion about the nutrition available to them at school and how other people are making decisions about what they eat.

We also talked about the Presidential Fitness Test that was going on at the school for some of the grades and the importance of physical fitness and why it's important to officials and schools and families and administrators why students should be in good shape.

And we were able to roll that into a discussion regarding what their food is made of, what contradiction existed between the rhetoric of the Presidents Fitness Challenge at school with regard to the food that was being served in the cafeteria.

Now, are these kids capable of dissecting details and nuances and discussing the edu-nutritional supply chain or district contracts or the money that's at stake? Of course not.

But I think adopting a completely hands-off approach, waiting until kids get to high school is also a disservice to these kids.

The 6th grade class that I was also teaching were tackling issues of class and entitlement with our unit on the Titanic and were looking at the perils of despotic fascism in their unit on The Diary of Anne Frank.

I think it's entirely appropriate to orient kids to these sorts of discussions - it's like anything else - provide the basics, a foundation of simple concepts that can be applied with increasing complexity as time goes on.

I mean, we teach Calculus to 12th graders - and the approach is not "Well.... these elementary kids are too young to understand calculus so let's not teach math until their minds can understand calculus"

It's obvious kids can understand mathematical concepts at steps all along the way to Calculus.

It's similar here - I think kids can observe, understand, and comment on things that might surprise you.

More importantly, at that age, parents train kids by what THEY believe. If these kids parents allowed them to sing, you can deduce that the parents may also believe in the cause. Which means that the kids believe. They are not at the age where it is common to break with your parents yet.

So, yes, these kids could possibly believe in this cause, wholeheartedly, while they sang.
 
I'm all for teaching kids current events, even those issues that are hot topics...let the kids choose a side and create a class debate on pro or con: approve public option health care. What an awesome, real life lesson these kids would learn! I LOVED doing stuff like that in high school. But the ages of the kids in this video...come on. The majority of them have no clue what they're singing about. And why should they? Let the high school kids in civics classes study it and debate it; I think that would be great and would allow them to learn about something that is affecting them and their families. But this is appropriate for high school age because they are capable of understanding it and therefore creating an educated opinion on it. I just have a problem teaching elementary aged schoolkids stupid songs about political issues that they have no clue about, and that they probably don't care about, because REALLY, what could they possibly be getting out of it? JMO.

Sorry... gotta give a "fail" to this response. These are upper-elementary/middle school kids. In fact, they are the sames kids that everyone was amazed about when they did the performance about the election last year. What's the difference? At no point did they say the want Obama's plan, nor did they say anything about being against it.

As a former teacher and someone who still works in education, I would say statements like yours only leads to furthering the dumbing down of America. Kids need to be aware of issues like this as soon as they possibly can. There are books being published on how to speak to younger kids about sex and drugs because guess what, the ages they start having sex and start doing drugs are getting younger and younger because no one knows how to speak to them about these issues and the consequences. The days of "don't do it" and "just say no" are gone.

"Well that's something parents should do."

Doesn't seem to be working.

The fact is the sooner kids are exposed to issues the better understanding they to make their own decisions on those issues, especially when they're given the opportunity to hear and grasp both sides of the situation to know what the real consequences are. Honestly, they won't get that at home because momma and daddy, more than likely, are on one side of the fence and will push those principles. One of the only places where they may be exposed to a different side that is rational is in school, where they are exposed to multiple views and experiences, good and bad.
 
I see you've been here since 2005, can you kindly link me to your post where you elicited this same amount of outrage when children sang at the White House in support of George W. Bush and his response to Katrina during late 2006?

K Thnx Bye.


EDIT: this applies to anyone else getting pissy as well.


This is what the 5th or 6th song we have seen either glorifying Obama or pushing one of his political agendas?

And you keep harking back to a single song done to Bush?
 
Sorry... gotta give a "fail" to this response. These are upper-elementary/middle school kids. In fact, they are the sames kids that everyone was amazed about when they did the performance about the election last year. What's the difference? At no point did they say the want Obama's plan, nor did they say anything about being against it.

As a former teacher and someone who still works in education, I would say statements like yours only leads to furthering the dumbing down of America. Kids need to be aware of issues like this as soon as they possibly can. There are books being published on how to speak to younger kids about sex and drugs because guess what, the ages they start having sex and start doing drugs are getting younger and younger because no one knows how to speak to them about these issues and the consequences. The days of "don't do it" and "just say no" are gone.

"Well that's something parents should do."

Doesn't seem to be working.

The fact is the sooner kids are exposed to issues the better understanding they to make their own decisions on those issues, especially when they're given the opportunity to hear and grasp both sides of the situation to know what the real consequences are. Honestly, they won't get that at home because momma and daddy, more than likely, are on one side of the fence and will push those principles. One of the only places where they may be exposed to a different side that is rational is in school, where they are exposed to multiple views and experiences, good and bad.

Okay, I'll agree that middle school kids can benefit from this stuff, and my son got drug education in late elementary school, which I thought was awesome. But prior to that, they need to be KIDS; they don't need to be weighed down with worrying about current issues...teach them stuff they can comprehend, which should include important issues that are directly applicable to them at that age, such as zero tolerance for bullying, earlier anti-drug/smoking education, etc. -- not health care. I know the kids in the video were older, and I should have clarified my comments more, but younger elementary kids don't need to be learning this stuff yet. When they're that young it IS up to mommy and daddy to be their influence on many things; being introduced to other points of view via school, friends, etc., is a gradual process, which, as you said, begins in late elementary and middle school. Then by the time they're in high school, they're mature enough to make educated decisions on how they feel about certain issues.

Yes, drug/sex/bullying education needs to start as early as possible. But other issues, especially current, controversial political ones, should be reserved for the older kids who can actually comprehend the different views on such issues. Start the younger ones off on more historical events, so that they can have a knowledge of history before they start getting into the more emotional and still-evolving aspects of current events. That's JMO...
 
It's possible, you know, to teach students about politics and things political without it turning into a course of indoctrination, right?

I totally agree with you in principle. However, you know as well as I that there's more teachers incapable of keeping their personal beliefs from coming out than those, like you and I, that can....or at least that's how it is where I've worked.

I can't even count the number of times I cringed while fellow teachers preached their religion or political views to students...and it wasn't even in a class that politics ties into.

The concept is ideal....the people get in the way of it.
 
I find it offensive to even do that to children that young -- whatever the purpose - whomever they support. Everyone is outraged if schools want to pray but when politics is involved it becomes okay. Wonder what would happen if I taught kindergarden kids to sing Jesus Christ Superstar -- I'm guessing it would be on the front page news

Good point...
 
kids in 4th and 5th grade can understand in fundamental ways how the political affects their educational experience

I don't think we should wait until students are of high school age to start introducing the political aspects of education

I remember when I was student teaching a Physical Education 5th grade class and we were discussing nutrition and we had a discussion about the nutrition available to them at school and how other people are making decisions about what they eat.

We also talked about the Presidential Fitness Test that was going on at the school for some of the grades and the importance of physical fitness and why it's important to officials and schools and families and administrators why students should be in good shape.

And we were able to roll that into a discussion regarding what their food is made of, what contradiction existed between the rhetoric of the Presidents Fitness Challenge at school with regard to the food that was being served in the cafeteria.

Now, are these kids capable of dissecting details and nuances and discussing the edu-nutritional supply chain or district contracts or the money that's at stake? Of course not.

But I think adopting a completely hands-off approach, waiting until kids get to high school is also a disservice to these kids.

The 6th grade class that I was also teaching were tackling issues of class and entitlement with our unit on the Titanic and were looking at the perils of despotic fascism in their unit on The Diary of Anne Frank.

I think it's entirely appropriate to orient kids to these sorts of discussions - it's like anything else - provide the basics, a foundation of simple concepts that can be applied with increasing complexity as time goes on.

I mean, we teach Calculus to 12th graders - and the approach is not "Well.... these elementary kids are too young to understand calculus so let's not teach math until their minds can understand calculus"

It's obvious kids can understand mathematical concepts at steps all along the way to Calculus.

It's similar here - I think kids can observe, understand, and comment on things that might surprise you.


Those are good examples as in teaching kids to think for themselves.

I can remember being in elementary school and having presidential elections. The teachers had talked about BOTH sides of the candidates' platforms in the weeks leading to the election. Then on election day, the entire school had the auditorium setup with little voting booths where we went to vote and as the day went on, they posted the voting results. It was to teach us to think as well as show the voting process.

That song, IMO, is a push for certain political agendas. Yes, there are problems in healthcare, however using kiddos to influence the parents isn't the answer. Also, for the most part, there aren't long lines to see a doctor unless using the ER to treat a cold because it has to be provided for free.
 
Not as long as these people go to the polls in droves

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Yeah, I know some will focus that this was on Limbaugh's show in some kind of way to quasi-defend the people "exploited" in this DETROIT NEWS report.
 

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