If the report on Asante is true....... (1 Viewer)

[MLU]

A couple of lockdown corners + Ed Orgeron motivated pass rush = $$$$$

 

['79 Saints]

yup

i like what the idea of changing to cover 2,,, every time i read about a CB thread, one main point ppl always address is "does he play man-to-man".. MM is great in man-to-man, but does that make him an automatic great cover 2 player? Yes i do think so. But not the other way though. also, since our Saints are knows to have a not so good secondary, why arent they playing cover 2, isnt it safer to have 2 def covering the each corner? rather than have Moss or CJ run right pass our CB and beat him down deep!,,, for real, why haven't they switched yet ?

O.K., a couple of things... Samuel can cover man-to-man, plus there are a host of other defenses you can run with someone like Samuel: cover-3, man/over, strict man-to-man, man/under... he presents options that simply were not available with Jason David.

Secondly, to run a cover-2, see that giant hole right there in the middle of the defense? That's where a middle linebacker that can stuff the run and drop back to cover the pass has to be, because the weakness of a cover-2 defense is right there (the seam route, the skinny post/the deep post, slant routes, etc.).

We currently do not have a linebacker who can fill that role, and there aren't any middle linebackers coming out in the draft that can fill it either. Most of the top ones are really 2-down guys, that are run stuffers, but cannot open their hips up to cover a tight end attacking the middle.

Vilma is a possibilty, but there are two important variables here: 1) is the knee healthy? 2) what is the compensation the Jets are looking for and are the Saints willing to pay it?

Finally, safety: Josh Bullocks has shown a lot of weakness in his pass coverage responsibilites, so I'm curious as to the assumption that he would be a better cover-2 safety. Perhaps, if the Saints were to bring back Dwight Smith there might be an argument there, but I think Smith's reputation as an outspoken player and his tenure with the Vikings pretty much makes him a persona non grata with the Saints.

I'd rather see the Saints stick with their current defensive scheme(s) and get players who can better execute it.

 

[Beast]

O.K., a couple of things... Samuel can cover man-to-man, plus there are a host of other defenses you can run with someone like Samuel: cover-3, man/over, strict man-to-man, man/under... he presents options that simply were not available with Jason David.

Secondly, to run a cover-2, see that giant hole right there in the middle of the defense? That's where a middle linebacker that can stuff the run and drop back to cover the pass has to be, because the weakness of a cover-2 defense is right there (the seam route, the skinny post/the deep post, slant routes, etc.).

We currently do not have a linebacker who can fill that role, and there aren't any middle linebackers coming out in the draft that can fill it either. Most of the top ones are really 2-down guys, that are run stuffers, but cannot open their hips up to cover a tight end attacking the middle.

Vilma is a possibilty, but there are two important variables here: 1) is the knee healthy? 2) what is the compensation the Jets are looking for and are the Saints willing to pay it?

Finally, safety: Josh Bullocks has shown a lot of weakness in his pass coverage responsibilites, so I'm curious as to the assumption that he would be a better cover-2 safety. Perhaps, if the Saints were to bring back Dwight Smith there might be an argument there, but I think Smith's reputation as an outspoken player and his tenure with the Vikings pretty much makes him a persona non grata with the Saints.

I'd rather see the Saints stick with their current defensive scheme(s) and get players who can better execute it.

Bingo!

If we sign Samuel, I'd see it more as a sign that we're sticking with more of a man scheme.. We will still play some zone.. As noted previously, I too think we played more zone this past year than we did in 2006, at least from what I can recall.. We also got picked apart numerous times while in zone coverage.. Receivers found the holes between the LBs and in front of the DBs way too easily.. And the ball got there way too easily (i.e. the LB or DB didn't make a play on it)..

IF, and it's still a big if, we sign Samuel, we still need to get some pass rush no matter what..

 

[GoBnG]

Bingo!

If we sign Samuel, I'd see it more as a sign that we're sticking with more of a man scheme.. We will still play some zone.. As noted previously, I too think we played more zone this past year than we did in 2006, at least from what I can recall.. We also got picked apart numerous times while in zone coverage.. Receivers found the holes between the LBs and in front of the DBs way too easily.. And the ball got there way too easily (i.e. the LB or DB didn't make a play on it)..

IF, and it's still a big if, we sign Samuel, we still need to get some pass rush no matter what..

The reason zone didn't work out well last year is because of our slow LBers. I think we get younger and faster at LB through the draft and FA this year. You'll know for sure the direction the defensive scheme is heading if they draft a stud S to replace bullocks.

 

[bobdigi]

Hell man, I got the blueprint to an awesome defensive scheme. Send this to our DC.

http://files.filefront.com/1987Bears+Defensepdf/;9714505;/fileinfo.html

(I got over 600 of these too if there is interest)

 

[Albi]

I heard on ESPN that Samuel might only get something like a 5 Year/$50 Million or a 6 year/$60 Million dollar contract. I have no problem paying him Reggie Bush money. I think he might help us more than Briggs, who I have mixed feelings about.

 

[Super Dave]

We already played a good deal of Cover 2 last year.

I thought we played more of a "Chase Cover" scheme... JD was All-world at it...

 

[kenny59715]

I thought we played more of a "Chase Cover" scheme... JD was All-world at it...

I think so also. We mainly played man coverage last year. That is why JD kept getting burned on. Do you guys not remember all of the threads on how we acquired a cover 2 corner (JD) and we play man and thats why he is not working out?

All I am saying is if MM is cool with moving to FS and is good at it, we can go after LB's with one of our first two picks and solve the "problem in the middle" with the cover 2 and our personel.

 

[BoNcHiE]

I think so also. We mainly played man coverage last year. That is why JD kept getting burned on. Do you guys not remember all of the threads on how we acquired a cover 2 corner (JD) and we play man and thats why he is not working out?

So the number of threads on something gives it credibilty? We played a mixture of defenses last year and we played alot of zone coverage most of the year until the Eagles game where we just blitzed nonstop. David's problems weren't his inability to stay with a reciever. He was a decent CB once in coverage. His problem was all mental at the line.

 

[kenny59715]

Yes, I do think the number of threads gives it some credibility. It shows that not just one person noticed this but a large number of people had taken notice.

We played primarily man 2 deep coverage last year. When Harper would get in the box they would go into a man 1 deep coverage.

The game that we started blitzing was the Seattle game. That is what caught the Hawks off guard. Until that game we sat back in man 2 deep coverages and hoped that our front 4 would get pressure.

Yes you are right about JD being ok once in coverage, which was when they did play a cover 2 zone. When they were manned up he had his head in the backfield like he was playing zone. That is what is main problem was.

 

[Geldo]

If this is true you could make some huge moves come draft day. Detroit is shopping Rogers but they want a 2nd or 3rd for him. The Saints could drop down to 15 (Detroits pick) and give the Lions the 10th pick for Rogers. Moving down 5 spots is valued at 250 pts which is equal to the 4th pick in the 3rd round. This would put the Saints in prime position to go LB in the 1st and 2nd. Just these moves alone would change our defense dramatically. It would address the LB's, CB's, DT, and S issues that we currently have.

Interesting shout Kenny, and I think you're probably not far away from the value Detroit is placing on Rogers, although they're rumoured to be parcelling him up as a job lot with Mike Williams for what is being described as a 'first-day pick'.

The only issue I have is that Rogers sank without trace in the second half of the season, (anyone know if this was form, minor injuires, lack of ambition etc?). He also has the same dreadful motor that Hollis has. I think it is frankly unlikely that even if they were constantly being rotated to keep em fresh Hollis and Shaun could go through a whole game let alone a season, without a third teammate to help out.

Also the switch with the Lions would allow us to draft Rogers-Cromartie in the first round who is a legit M2M cover guy and who could learn under the mentorship of two experienced CBs.

Maybe the best thing we could do to fill the gaping holes we have at MLB - and to a lesser extent WLB is to trade for a veteran (or two), because college football just doesn't seem to be producing enough quality MLBs anymore.

 

[kenny59715]

Interesting shout Kenny, and I think you're probably not far away from the value Detroit is placing on Rogers, although they're rumoured to be parcelling him up as a job lot with Mike Williams for what is being described as a 'first-day pick'.

The only issue I have is that Rogers sank without trace in the second half of the season, (anyone know if this was form, minor injuires, lack of ambition etc?). He also has the same dreadful motor that Hollis has. I think it is frankly unlikely that even if they were constantly being rotated to keep em fresh Hollis and Shaun could go through a whole game let alone a season, without a third teammate to help out.

Also the switch with the Lions would allow us to draft Rogers-Cromartie in the first round who is a legit M2M cover guy and who could learn under the mentorship of two experienced CBs.

Maybe the best thing we could do to fill the gaping holes we have at MLB - and to a lesser extent WLB is to trade for a veteran (or two), because college football just doesn't seem to be producing enough quality MLBs anymore.

Thanks,
Yea if we can do that then we could draft Rivers at 10 and Mayo at 41....We would be young and fast at linebacker with Rivers, Mayo, Fujita. We would also be big up front with Rogers and Thomas. Don't forget we have a new high motor DL coach in Ogeron to get these guys motivated.

 

[kenny59715]

I thought we played more of a "Chase Cover" scheme... JD was All-world at it...

Why does everyone think all of a sudden that we ran primarily a zone scheme last year?

 

[kenny59715]

Demarrio Williams didn't even know that carr got cut..

 

[BIGRON]

Micky Loomis was on WWL today and when asked by Bobby and Kenny if the rumors was true about A. Samuels he responded that it was not true and that he have not talked to anybody from Samuel's camp.