If we keep Grammatica long term, the Saints will have a huge advantage (1 Viewer)

[Guitarzan]

Kicking that ball in Chicago must have felt like kicking a brick. He's 2 years younger than Mare. If we can't keep both of them I hope Martin' is the guy.

 

[saint-58]

Morten Anderson doesn't have a son hidden away somewhere that he's teaching to kick???? You know kinda like Archie did with his boys!!!!

 

[Chairman_LMAO]

Everybody knows that The Olindo Mare Experience has been a spectacular failure. But let’s give it a little context, shall we?

Last year the Saints were tied for 18th in field goals made.

This year? Dead last.

But it’s worse than that. Last year’s team scored 413 total points. This year’s team has scored 59 fewer points. 27 of those 59 points, a whopping 45.76% of the dropoff, are directly attributable to Olindo Mare’s asstacularness vs. John Carney’s 2006 mediocrity.

Give the 2007 Saints’ 10th-ranked scoring team a slightly-below-average kicker, not a great one but just a solid C- like last year, and the Saints are a mere two points away from last year’s #5 ranking. And that doesn’t even count the apparent reluctance to even attempt a field goal this year vs. last year (21 attempts to last year’s 26.)

Or, to put it another way, the Saints scored 25.8 points per game last year. This year? 23.6 ppg. Give the 2007 Saints 2006 production from the kicker, and they score less than 1/2 a point per game below last year.

But is everybody’s favorite excitable little greaseball the answer?

Yes. Assuming you’re still hoarding toilet paper and canned meat products in anticipation of the collapse of western civilization as a result of the Y2K bug. Otherwise, hell no.

Marteen was alright in 2002 (this just in… by the time the 2008 Saints kick off, that will have been six years hence) but even then his percentage wasn’t great. It’s just that Tampa tends to attempt field goals by the metric assload. Even in Marteen’s best year, his percentage made is only good for fair to middlin’.

He was an average kicker… over a half decade ago. The Saints have had the good fortune of having benefitted from his death rattle. But to count on him for next year would be ridiculous. He’s done. He’s been done.

Bottom line: The Saints need a new kicker in 2008 in the worst way. Potential free agents include Philly’s David Akers, Seattle’s Josh Brown, Denver’s Jason Elam <s>and the Giants’ Lawrence Tynes</s>, but you have to figure all of those guys will stay where they are. None of them are especially exciting anyway.

In my opinion, the Saints are long overdue to go young at kicker. That’s always risky, but when your baseline is Mare and Gramatica, what’s the downside to taking a shot? How about Louisville’s Art Carmody or Oregon State’s Alexis Serna in the 6th or 7th?

Spilt milk: How nice would it have been to have drafted Mason Crosby last year? Green Bay took him in the 6th. Guh.

 

[Guitarzan]

This team goes for it too much on 4th down. IMO. Is that because of coaching philosophy or because the kickers can't get it done?

If it's the former than having an excellent kicker won't change much. If it's the latter then... well you know.

How many teams go for it on 4th downs as early in a game and as deep in our own territory as we have over the past 2 seasons? Especially last season!

 

[hookedsaint]

Yes, if you mean keep both through camp. But keep both during the season? I dont think so. I just dont see giving up a roster spot to keep two kickers. The only time that remotely makes sense is when you have one kicker who is extremely reliable on short kicks but cannot kick deep and another kicker who can bomb them deep but is unreliable on short kicks.

Thats not the case here. If anything, Mare has been more reliable over his career.

No, I meant keep both of them on the active roster. I would give up a roster spot for two kickers, they are one of the main contributers for scoring. I'm sure the team can breakdown the roster and eliminate a backup of less significance for a player who will score points. If they both struggle then keep the better of the two the following week. Look I'm not saying it's logical or would even happen but I think it would help the team more than hurt it. Every other position has a guy waiting for their opportunity and is pushing the guy in front of them to perform at their best, why not the kickers. Competition is healthy.

Gramatica seems to have just as strong a leg as Mare and as of late, better accuracy, long and short. Remember it's what have you done for me lately.

 

[Sullivan97]

Chairman LMAO, i dont know how to articulate this, but that was an excellent argument. Bring facts like that to other threads and we would have alot of arguments end.

 

[srcampbell]

You beat me to it.
Mare started kicking better before he got hurt.
Let them duke it out and let the best Kicker stay.

I think the best kicker should win. But I would honestly cringed whenever Mare lined up for a field goal. Even when he was healthy he seemed to lack confidence. Grammatica, however, exuded confidence. Before his first kick I knew he would make it.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

If we have the roster space keep both. If it comes down to two of them or one and a young player with potential, keep Automatica.

We worked very efficiently with Billy Cundiff and John Carney. Mare and Gramatica are nearly the same as those two. Ideally, either Mare could step up in terms of consistency and accuracy, or Martin could come back with a stronger leg, one could step up and earn all 3 jobs of short-mid range FG kicker, long range FG kicker, and kickoff specialist.

I don't know what drugs you are on, but I hate Billy "I can't type my nickname for him" Cundiff. Remove the d, and add a letter that rhymes. He was horrible. The tuna got rid of him for a reason.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Everybody knows that The Olindo Mare Experience has been a spectacular failure. But let’s give it a little context, shall we?

Last year the Saints were tied for 18th in field goals made.

This year? Dead last.

But it’s worse than that. Last year’s team scored 413 total points. This year’s team has scored 59 fewer points. 27 of those 59 points, a whopping 45.76% of the dropoff, are directly attributable to Olindo Mare’s asstacularness vs. John Carney’s 2006 mediocrity.

Give the 2007 Saints’ 10th-ranked scoring team a slightly-below-average kicker, not a great one but just a solid C- like last year, and the Saints are a mere two points away from last year’s #5 ranking. And that doesn’t even count the apparent reluctance to even attempt a field goal this year vs. last year (21 attempts to last year’s 26.)

Or, to put it another way, the Saints scored 25.8 points per game last year. This year? 23.6 ppg. Give the 2007 Saints 2006 production from the kicker, and they score less than 1/2 a point per game below last year.

But is everybody’s favorite excitable little greaseball the answer?

Yes. Assuming you’re still hoarding toilet paper and canned meat products in anticipation of the collapse of western civilization as a result of the Y2K bug. Otherwise, hell no.

Marteen was alright in 2002 (this just in… by the time the 2008 Saints kick off, that will have been six years hence) but even then his percentage wasn’t great. It’s just that Tampa tends to attempt field goals by the metric assload. Even in Marteen’s best year, his percentage made is only good for fair to middlin’.

He was an average kicker… over a half decade ago. The Saints have had the good fortune of having benefitted from his death rattle. But to count on him for next year would be ridiculous. He’s done. He’s been done.

Bottom line: The Saints need a new kicker in 2008 in the worst way. Potential free agents include Philly’s David Akers, Seattle’s Josh Brown, Denver’s Jason Elam <s>and the Giants’ Lawrence Tynes</s>, but you have to figure all of those guys will stay where they are. None of them are especially exciting anyway.

In my opinion, the Saints are long overdue to go young at kicker. That’s always risky, but when your baseline is Mare and Gramatica, what’s the downside to taking a shot? How about Louisville’s Art Carmody or Oregon State’s Alexis Serna in the 6th or 7th?

Spilt milk: How nice would it have been to have drafted Mason Crosby last year? Green Bay took him in the 6th. Guh.

You're right, we need a young kicker, but it's something that can wait another year or two. Our defense needs major help, and using a draft pick on a kicker won't help our defense. Soon as we are much better on defense I say draft a kicker. Plus, we score more touchdowns than field goals anyway.

 

[Saints382]

You're right, we need a young kicker, but it's something that can wait another year or two. Our defense needs major help, and using a draft pick on a kicker won't help our defense. Soon as we are much better on defense I say draft a kicker. Plus, we score more touchdowns than field goals anyway.

I actually think we will be fine with Gramatica for maybe 2-4 years, unless he completely loses it and misses every kick.

Hopefully the D will be finally addressed for once and for all.

Also, let's not forget about field position with K/P's, that helps the D. Gramatica is average with TB's, and hopefully he improves on that. If we could get the opposing team to start on the 20, or even less then that...it would be a major boost for our D, in general. This year and last a lot of teams were starting on the 25+.

 

[dtc]

Nice post, Chairman! Great read, but I would point out that the stinkylittle Mare did miss a disproportionate number of very long kicks. I don't recall the numbers, but early in the year I seem to think he missed like 3 or 4 out of 5 at one point and all were 50+.

Also, the slimylittlegreaser definitely hit a 54 or something late in the year and had yards to spare. I think the rumor of declining leg strenght are a bit much, but a young kicker would be good - maybe next year or the following. I wanna see a catfight this preseason anyway.

 

[SuperSaint]

I've never understood all this fawning over Gramatica. When healthy, Mare is the superior kicker, and it isn't close in my book.