Individual Mandate and Hospitals (1 Viewer)

APSaintsFan

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Me and my brother were having a Heated Discussion about this.

A friend of mine had to go into the hospital for an emergency appendicitis. 5 days later he is back home.

His total bill was $62,000. He has a Health Insurance plan through his employer that is a 70/30 plan. His part after insurance and everything was $6,000. He was so glad he had insurance or he would be bankrupt. He setup something with the hospital to have it paid over 3 months time(that is all they would allow). He was lucky that he had that in savings to take care of it.

I told my brother about this and he was wondering if they could have just gotten my friend stabilized so his doctor could have taken care of this. I told him I do not know, he sounded like it was going to burst and then he could have died.

My brother is of the point that he should not have to buy health insurance. So, he does not like the Individual Mandate.

I think you need to have insurance because of this very point. I asked him if he had $62,000 that he could get to right then and there to pay the hospital? He said of course not who would? I told him my point of view about thank god my friend had it and it did not bankrupt him.

Individual Mandate? Personal Responsibility? My brother talks about how he is a Republican Conservative.

Need some help understanding about not wanting to be a burden and Hospitals.

AP:idunno:
 

dtc

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Personal responsibility in my mind is having insurance or enough money to not have to beg, borrow or steal it from a hospital and doctors.

You illustrated with your example exactly what's flawed about what's passed as logic by the "conservative Republicans" who stand opposed to Obamacare.

You've also pointed out the irony that the same Republicans who preach personal responsibility and conservative values and now oppose the ACA were, in fact, the same group who cooked it up when Romney did it in Massachusetts.

I love hypocrisy.
 

mt15

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Me and my brother were having a Heated Discussion about this.

A friend of mine had to go into the hospital for an emergency appendicitis. 5 days later he is back home.

His total bill was $62,000. He has a Health Insurance plan through his employer that is a 70/30 plan. His part after insurance and everything was $6,000. He was so glad he had insurance or he would be bankrupt. He setup something with the hospital to have it paid over 3 months time(that is all they would allow). He was lucky that he had that in savings to take care of it.

I told my brother about this and he was wondering if they could have just gotten my friend stabilized so his doctor could have taken care of this. I told him I do not know, he sounded like it was going to burst and then he could have died.

My brother is of the point that he should not have to buy health insurance. So, he does not like the Individual Mandate.

I think you need to have insurance because of this very point. I asked him if he had $62,000 that he could get to right then and there to pay the hospital? He said of course not who would? I told him my point of view about thank god my friend had it and it did not bankrupt him.

Individual Mandate? Personal Responsibility? My brother talks about how he is a Republican Conservative.

Need some help understanding about not wanting to be a burden and Hospitals.

AP:idunno:
It's not just appendicitis, there are a whole lot of things that can happen suddenly to otherwise healthy people and you need a hospital. You're taking a big risk if you don't have insurance and frankly, with the ACA there's really no excuse to not have any coverage at all. I really hope your brother gets himself some coverage, he really should have it.
 

IntenseSaint

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Individual Mandate? Personal Responsibility? My brother talks about how he is a Republican Conservative.
So is this personal anecdote used to assume all Republican Conservatives think the same way as your brother?
 

lapaz

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So is this personal anecdote used to assume all Republican Conservatives think the same way as your brother?
The Republican replacement is explained in the attached.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.forb...mericans-can-finally-put-obamacare-behind-us/

It's byzantine in comparison to even Obamacare. So they apparently will give tax credits to buy insurance. So how does that work for low income people who pay very low to no income taxes? How do they use that to buy insurance?

The article has the audacity to claim that removing the mandate will decrease cost! Sure, all of those healthy people not being required to carry insurance will save insurance companies so much money that they'll be able to lower their premiums.

Then Republicans acknowledge that some people will be uninsurable so they'll need to setup a high risk pool. So why would people be uninsurable if pre-existing conditions are outlawed? Will there be a limit on how much more you can charge for lee-existing conditions, but even charging many times more would still make them too costly? Isn't that defacto discrimination against pre-existing conditions? And Republicans would set aside $2.5B per year for high risk pools. So that would address about 10,000 people. That seems low to me.
 

saintmdterps

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First off, 62,000 dollars for a routine procedure like an appendectomy is absolutely absurd. Nowhere else in the world would this be tolerated. Not to mention the fact that you are more likely to come down with a hospital-acquired infection in the US than most of the developed world.

These costs are the result of having no controls whatsoever on healthcare prices. Why should we expect otherwise when the healthcare providers and their lobbyists are the ones writing the laws?

I pay over 11K per year for medical, dental, and vision for my family of 4. For the medical portion there is a 750.00 deductible, then 80/20 up to 3K, so a max out-of-pocket expense of 3750.00 per person per calendar year.

Yeah, I want single-payor.

Comparing health care costs in US and 8 other countries - HealthNewsReview.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-americas-health-care-prices-are-ludicrous/
 

brandon8283

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I have a very close friend in his late 40s who was in great health. Probably didn't have much need for health insurance at all.

Except his son was born with cerebral palsy and will need lifetime medical assistance.

And whoops, one day a couple of years back he was in the woods and was bitten by a rattlesnake. An ambulance ride and a few doses of antivenin later, and his hospital bill was over $400,000.

Life happens. That's why, short of single payer, we need a mandate. Even if you're healthy.


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SaintJ

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Except his son was born with cerebral palsy and will need lifetime medical assistance.

And whoops, one day a couple of years back he was in the woods and was bitten by a rattlesnake. An ambulance ride and a few doses of antivenin later, and his hospital bill was over $400,000.


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He should simply pull himself up by his own bootstraps.
 

lapaz

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I have a very close friend in his late 40s who was in great health. Probably didn't have much need for health insurance at all.

Except his son was born with cerebral palsy and will need lifetime medical assistance.

And whoops, one day a couple of years back he was in the woods and was bitten by a rattlesnake. An ambulance ride and a few doses of antivenin later, and his hospital bill was over $400,000.

Life happens. That's why, short of single payer, we need a mandate. Even if you're healthy.


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That charge for the snake bite is outrageous. Our health care costs absolutely need reform. I wonder if we could have single payer and a market? Could we tax people and then return a portion of what they don't use? This would be sort of like an HSA, except everyone would get the same amount, rather than expecting the poor to set aside from their meager earnings.
 

brandon8283

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That charge for the snake bite is outrageous. Our health care costs absolutely need reform. I wonder if we could have single payer and a market? Could we tax people and then return a portion of what they don't use? This would be sort of like an HSA, except everyone would get the same amount, rather than expecting the poor to set aside from their meager earnings.
Or we could just not reinvent the wheel and do what works in all of the other developed countries of the world.
 

lapaz

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Or we could just not reinvent the wheel and do what works in all of the other developed countries of the world.
In light of the Republicans being in power, emulating Europe and Canada is unlikely. This idea blends the Republican HSA with a means to subsidize the HSA for the poor and gets around the mandate, since everyone will pay the tax. I would simply increase the FICA tax to pay for it. It's probably slightly more politically palatable to Republicans.
 

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