Injuries DID play a part. The season is over playoff wise but yes injuries did affect the outcome. (1 Viewer)

SaintsSupremacy

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Breaux in = stack the box with an extra player and stop the run. Thats how good Breaux is.

Snead = Brees would have had another extra-reliable WR instead of brand new UDFA Tommylee (who did play spectacularly). Snead would have made Drew much more comfortable.

Rankins in = more opportunity to rush the QB from the sides and also stop the run

Kikaha = Natty Ice on his back looking at the dome roof

EDIT: Also Tyler Davison. our run defense disappeared with John Jenkins at DT.
 

blackadder

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Breaux in = stack the box with an extra player and stop the run. Thats how good Breaux is.

Snead = Brees would have had another extra-reliable WR instead of brand new UDFA Tommylee (who did play spectacularly). Snead would have made Drew much more comfortable.

Rankins in = more opportunity to rush the QB from the sides and also stop the run

Kikaha = Natty Ice on his back looking at the dome roof
You sure they wouldn't drop Kikaha into coverage??

That's what Allen did last year.
 

diehardfan

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That doesn't excuse giving up over 200 yards rushing. It just doesn't.

We can't develop defensive players. Why is that? We need to clean house on that side of the ball.

Of course we know that won't happen....in the meantime we get year after year of a top rated offense and the worst defense in the league.
 
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SaintsSupremacy

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That doesn't excuse giving up over 200 yards rushing. It just doesn't.
Do you think Rankins would have been good against the run?

Also like i said, Vaccaro and Breaux in = Vaccaro stopping the run while stacking the box.
 

diehardfan

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Do you think Rankins would have been good against the run?

Also like i said, Vaccaro and Breaux in = Vaccaro stopping the run while stacking the box.
Would it have helped? Sure.

But there are systemic problems on Defense. It's bigger than a couple of injuries. I can't remember how many times we lost contain on the edges, it really was ridiculous.

There were missed assignments everywhere last night. That shouldn't happen. That's coaching. That's just my opinion.
 

BoNcHiE

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Teams don't overcome missing 6 starters on defense (Breaux, PJ, Rankins, Ellerbe, Vacarro, Davison). I'm not even counting the guys who got hurt earlier in the offseason like Kikaha and our nickel CB (whoever would of won that job). Teams do not overcome that many injuries on one side of the ball.

I know that fogs up the water in a way some people don't want (easier if we could just say "see, it's coach x's problem or player y's problem"). But it's reality. You can't just pretend they don't matter. They don't just matter a little. They matter a lot.

In regards to the run defense, Vacarro is our in the box safety who makes many of those plays. Ellerbe is a great run defender. Davison was probably the biggest loss. Jenkins might as well be on skates. Rankins is almost 300 pounds and quick. He'd of been valuable. Breaux and PJ are much, much better tacklers in the run game then Crawley, who is an awful tackler.
 

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Breaux
PJ
Rankins
Kikaha
Davison
Ellerbe
Vacarro

Byrd plays soft and that must be addressed but aside from that every defender i want to complain about shouldnt have been on the field..
 
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SaintsSupremacy

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Teams don't overcome missing 6 starters on defense (Breaux, PJ, Rankins, Ellerbe, Vacarro, Davison). I'm not even counting the guys who got hurt earlier in the offseason like Kikaha. Teams do not overcome there.

I know that fogs up the water in a way so people don't want (easier if we could just say "see, it's coach x's problem or player y's problem"). But it's reality. You can't just pretend they don't matter. They don't just matter a little. They matter a lot.

In regards to the run defense, Vacarro is our in the box safety who makes many of those plays. Ellerbe is a great run defender. Davison was probably the biggest loss. Jenkins might as well be on skates. Rankins is almost 300 pounds and quick. He'd of been valuable. Breaux and PJ are much, much better tacklers in the run game then Crawley, who is an awful tackler.
:plus-un2:
 

diehardfan

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Teams don't overcome missing 6 starters on defense. It just doesn't happen.

I know that fogs up the water in a way so people don't want (easier if we could just say "see, it's coach x's problem or player y's problem"). But it's reality. You can't just pretend they don't matter. They don't just matter a little. They matter a lot.
The injuries do matter but every team is dealing with it (maybe not to the same extent as ours on Defense). I forgot which game I was watching but a team had lost 5 starters on Defense. But they didn't completely fall apart.

The injuries hurt us more than other teams because our roster isn't deep at all. Poor drafts and bad free agency decisions are killing the middle of our roster.

I'm not saying injuries don't matter. I'm saying that other teams deal with injuries better because they make better personnel decisions. Also, the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is a problem. When you couple that with the injuries we've had, you get the performance last night.
 

BoNcHiE

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The injuries do matter but every team is dealing with it (maybe not to the same extent as ours on Defense). I forgot which game I was watching but a team had lost 5 major starters on Defense. But they didn't completely fall apart.

The injuries hurt us more than other teams because our roster isn't deep at all. Poor drafts and bad free agency decisions are killing the middle of our roster.

I'm not saying injuries don't matter. I'm saying that other teams deal with injuries better because they make better personnel decisions. Also, the coaching on the defensive side of the ball is a problem.
No, they aren't. Not like this on one side of the ball.

If you can show me the team that has lost 5 major starters on defense, I'd like to know who they are. Even still, we are missing 6. Maybe even 7-8 if you want to count Kikaha and the NB (but I won't count them to avoid argument).
 

diehardfan

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No, they aren't. Not like this on one side of the ball.

If you can show me the team that has lost 5 major starters on defense, I'd like to know who they are. Even still, we are missing 6. Maybe even 7-8 if you want to count Kikaha and the NB (but I won't count them to avoid argument).
Green Bay has been hit pretty bad with injuries, losing 5 starters on D:

The Packers already were without five key contributors: cornerback Sam Shields (concussion), outside linebacker Clay Matthews (ankle, hamstring), safety Morgan Burnett (groin), defensive tackle Letroy Guion (knee) and defensive end/outside linebacker Datone Jones (knee).

Yet they are in the top 15 in total Defense and Points allowed.

Again, I'm not saying injuries don't matter. Injuries DO matter, especially to us because of our depth issue.

My point is that other teams handle it better, like the Packers.
 
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SaintsSupremacy

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No, they aren't. Not like this on one side of the ball.

If you can show me the team that has lost 5 major starters on defense, I'd like to know who they are. Even still, we are missing 6. Maybe even 7-8 if you want to count Kikaha and the NB (but I won't count them to avoid argument).
Exactly. This is the NFL. There is quite a gap between supremely talented starters and the rest of the team. Breaux is so good that stacking the box would have been entirely possible. Thus stopping runs much better. Also tackling.
 

saints28

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Breaux in = stack the box with an extra player and stop the run. Thats how good Breaux is.

Snead = Brees would have had another extra-reliable WR instead of brand new UDFA Tommylee (who did play spectacularly). Snead would have made Drew much more comfortable.

Rankins in = more opportunity to rush the QB from the sides and also stop the run

Kikaha = Natty Ice on his back looking at the dome roof

EDIT: Also Tyler Davison. our run defense disappeared with John Jenkins at DT.
They were missing assignment before all the injuries. There is just zero player development on this team.
 

BoNcHiE

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Green Bay has been hit pretty bad with injuries, losing 5 starters on D:

The Packers already were without five key contributors: cornerback Sam Shields (concussion), outside linebacker Clay Matthews (ankle, hamstring), safety Morgan Burnett (groin), defensive tackle Letroy Guion (knee) and defensive end/outside linebacker Datone Jones (knee).

Yet they are in the top 15 in total Defense and Points allowed.

Again, I'm not saying injuries don't matter. They matter a lot and even more to us because of our depth issue.

My point is that other teams handle it better, like the Packers.
Only 4 of those are starters. The other is a backup. And only 3 of those starters actually missed last game.

We had double the starters miss the game last night.

I understand your point, but there's still no team that I can think of that overcomes this many injuries to starters on defense.
 

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