Is Jameis Ready? (1 Viewer)

[DSnfla]

I can offer a take based on 5 years of watching him in Tampa. He's a flat out enigma. I wish he'd shown a clear progression in that time, year-by-year, to justify the #1 pick, but he never did. He was as likely to throw a boneheaded int in year 5 as he was in year 1. Not the forcing-it-into-double-coverage-under-pressure kind of int, but throw-it-to-that-DB-on-an-island-miles-from-any-receiver kind of int. It’s that latter kind that left the lasting impression. You needed the replay to convince you that you didn’t hallucinate it.

Up until his last year, 2019, he really didn't have the pieces around him either on offense or defense, but when he was chasing games, it was as likely to be because he came out throwing pick-6s as it was the defense putting the team in a hole. He padded his stats a lot chasing games. Often you could tell from the first series which Jameis you were going to get on a given Sunday, and it was occasionally the bad-and-staying-bad version, frequently the starting-bad-but-improving-but-not-quite-enough-to-win version. Occasionally, you’d get good-and-staying-good version, the one that looked like the #1 pick, and that was the curse that gave you false hope. He’d throw in just enough of those over a season to make the team persist with him as a work-in-progress.

In a rhythm, and on a good day, he was lethal with short and intermediate throws, but he almost always struggled with deep balls and dump-offs, tending to overthrow both kinds, even with receivers he should have built a rapport with. When protection broke down, as it did frequently, he almost never took the sack or threw it away, he would dance around and then throw a highlight reel bomb, or back off another 10 yards before getting tackled, or cough up the ball. The coaches just couldn’t coach that out of him, it was in his bone marrow.

One thing he did tend to do was play up or down to the opposition. The team rarely had comfortable leads. He would turn 20 point deficits into 5 point deficits, and 20 point leads into 5 point leads. Halfway thru a game, a switch just flipped, and he went from bad-to-good or good-to-bad. It was either desperation or fatal complacency.

When he was traded away, some Bucs fans were conflicted, he managed to allay a lot of the concerns about character (justifiable concerns) when he was drafted, over time. And I think most Bucs fans would wish him well, just not against us. The irony of the result last Sunday is that I missed the game, flashed the stats quickly afterwards, noticed Winston had playing time (didn't realize it was just 1 play), saw the int count, and put 2-and-2 together and got 5.

Had this been year 2 or 3 of his NFL career, I would say roll the dice as starter, but this is year 6, and he's not going to show you anything he didn't show in years 1-5, under several different offensive-minded HCs.

This is so absolutely true it's scary. Like you said if this were yr 3 or even 4 for JW I'd be really optimistic but he is an enigma wrapped up in a riddle. My question for all the Winston people , Did you forget how we looked forward to the picks we were going to get every time we played them , or the badly missed throws he ALWAYS made not to mention he was good for a fumble or 2 . Unless SP is a neurosurgeon and can rewire his brain I don't have hope to see that much difference for the Tampa Winston. I do truly hope I'm wrong cause he has ALL the physical talents you could want in a QB except running ablity but the best QB's ever have had their talent l not in their arms (JaMarcus Russell) or their legs but in that space between their ears

 

[NOFALCONS10]

This is so absolutely true it's scary. Like you said if this were yr 3 or even 4 for JW I'd be really optimistic but he is an enigma wrapped up in a riddle. My question for all the Winston people , Did you forget how we looked forward to the picks we were going to get every time we played them , or the badly missed throws he ALWAYS made not to mention he was good for a fumble or 2 . Unless SP is a neurosurgeon and can rewire his brain I don't have hope to see that much difference for the Tampa Winston. I do truly hope I'm wrong cause he has ALL the physical talents you could want in a QB except running ablity but the best QB's ever have had their talent l not in their arms (JaMarcus Russell) or their legs but in that space between their ears

They made Brady look horrible twice this year too with no running game.

Look what happened in the playoffs once They found one.

 

[DSnfla]

Ok then think about what happened in Tampa while Winston was there.

Three different head coaches in 5 seasons.......................three different offensive coordinators not to mention the dysfunction that comes from such a poorly run organization.

His last head coach there was Bruce Arians........................need I say more?

Going into last Sundays game a lot of Saints fans were tired of hearing how the Bucs were not the same team that the Saints had beaten twice in the regular season and in reality they weren't the same team. They were a better team.

All season long one of the biggest stories in the media was about Brady and Arians butting heads weekly and in reality it was true. The Bucs changed their spots when Arians FINALLY let Byron Leftwitch call and install the kind of offense that worked best to what Brady does best instead of stubbornly trying to micro manage every aspect of the offense.

Winston was thrown to the wolves in Tampa and it came to a head when Arians was hired there. He's got a different head coach in his ear now.

They really were not much different , it's US that were different, It was US that were missing 2 major starters on offense that would have played a BIG part in the outcome. It was US that lost maybe the most explosive player in the league early in the game . It was US that had our best WR hobbled and wanted to play in what could be Drew's last game. It was US that lost a key cog in our LB core weeks earlier. It was US that had our best pass rusher hurt all week and was hampered severely, Call it excuses or reasons but that's the REAL story

 

[NOFALCONS10]

JW never had much of a run game, even this year it's been poor most of the time up until the postseason. JW also never had an elite defense, and at times they were awful, and just as likely to put the team in a hole as he was. He did have good WRs and TEs, and good pass blocking generally, and that allowed the team to post top-5 NFL yardage stats consistently, he would negate that with giveaways or the offense would negate with penalties. One game, the team put up 500+ yards and only 3 points, a quite bizarre NFL record.

He did have offensive-minded HCs around him, and schemes that allowed him a fair amount of success in the passing game. I might be wrong, but I don't think any other team had more pass yards in the NFL from 2017-19, total of 15K, but that stat is mitigated by the fact that the Bucs threw a lot (from necessity) and wasted a lot of good drives.

Yeah but like I said to the guy above, Look at how Brady did vs the Saints with no running game vs last week.

Same thing with Sam Darnold.

How successful can you expect a qb to be with no running game for 4 years+?

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Even Brees needed the 4th (or was it 6th) best rushing attack to win the superbowl.

In the past 10 years Payton has placed more of an emphasis on the ground game.

 

[DSnfla]

They made Brady look horrible twice this year too with no running game.

Look what happened in the playoffs once They found one.

I put that on Dennis Allen , the Bucs had an extra O lineman in on all the run plays and most of the pass plays. Allen never adjusted , he stayed in base too much . On pass plays we were able in the first 2 games to get major pressure rushing but that was with a healthy Trey Hendrickson

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

Winston lacks leadership and maturity. Never been a question of raw athletic talent. That's my take.

 

[meily]

People don't want Winston to take over the reigns so they attack his character as if they know him personally, but the COACHES loves him, the PLAYERS love him.

People will jump on board when #2 gets under center and they see those deep balls and back shoulder throws and how Payton build the offense around his skillset (because people forget Payton is still the Coach of this team) and we will be seeing a bunch of "I was wrong about Winstons" threads coupled with the "Brees would of done this or that" threads when the Team loses because you already know Winston is the new punching bag going into next season that will be blamed for everything because some people don't want him to be the next man up.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

I put that on Dennis Allen , the Bucs had an extra O lineman in on all the run plays and most of the pass plays. Allen never adjusted , he stayed in base too much . On pass plays we were able in the first 2 games to get major pressure rushing but that was with a healthy Trey Hendrickson

Bucs

Game 1- 86 yards rushing
Game 2-8 yards rushing
Game 3-127 yards rushing


You could just as easily give the bucs credit for making adjustments that allowed them to keep their offense balanced.

 

[DSnfla]

People don't want Winston to take over the reigns so they attack his character as if they know him personally, but the COACHES loves him, the PLAYERS love him.

People will jump on board when #2 gets under center and they see those deep balls and back shoulder throws and how Payton build the offense around his skillset (because people forget Payton is still the Coach of this team) and we will be seeing a bunch of "I was wrong about Winstons" threads coupled with the "Brees would of done this or that" threads when the Team loses because you already know Winston is the new punching bag going into next season that will be blamed for everything because some people don't want him to be the next man up.

I would argue that some people DO want him to take over in spite of what he has shown in the past and maybe for that reason also . I'll say this. I do hope that SP can turn him into the player worthy of the #1 pick cause it would be the greatest turnaround of a QB in NFL history and SP would be remembered for that as much as a super bowl . He would be anointed as THE QB whisper of all time. What bothers me is the almost complete dissing of Taysom most people have done on this board . He has started a total of FOUR GAMES as QB and some have already made up their mind even though he played pretty well in most of them in spite of SP saying it was his fault cause he was hampering him in one of them. To those that say "well He's been in the system for a few yrs now" that's just ridiculous , because QB was not his main position , he was in almost every room in the offense AND special teams . I want to see a full training camp and pre-season games with TH only at QB and let's see. I REALLY don't care who it is that takes over I care about the team that's why I say to both QB's SHOW ME

 

[DSnfla]

Bucs

Game 1- 86 yards rushing
Game 2-8 yards rushing
Game 3-127 yards rushing


You could just as easily give the bucs credit for making adjustments that allowed them to keep their offense balanced.

Of course they deserve credit for making that adjustment , I also place blame on Allen for not counter adjusting to it

 

[Jesse Custer]

None of what you posted about Taysom has anything to do with his fumbles or his inability to read defenses.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

None of what you posted about Taysom has anything to do with his fumbles or his inability to read defenses.

5 turnovers and 13 sacks in 4 games.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Give me Mac Jones or Jameis for my money.

 

[Ihartsaints]

They really were not much different , it's US that were different, It was US that were missing 2 major starters on offense that would have played a BIG part in the outcome. It was US that lost maybe the most explosive player in the league early in the game . It was US that had our best WR hobbled and wanted to play in what could be Drew's last game. It was US that lost a key cog in our LB core weeks earlier. It was US that had our best pass rusher hurt all week and was hampered severely, Call it excuses or reasons but that's the REAL story

Nailed it. I agree it was more a case where we were a different team than the first two matchups.