Is Jeff Ireland Really Good? (1 Viewer)

[CajunSaint08]

I have a feeling Ireland will be following Sean Payton....no facts to base this on, but the two together made some pretty good draft choices. I hope not, because without him, we may fall all the way to the bottom.

 

[BikesBurgersBeer]

We are above average in talent evaluation and drafting players.

We have had a few misses trying to draft difference or potential difference makers before Brees hung up his cleats.

Worth the gamble if you ask me. Last year's draft was pretty damn good btw.

It's obvious Penning is going to be a good to great lineman.

 

[SweetT]

I remember reading that SP picked the 1st or 1st/2nd rd picks and Ireland picked the rest. Not sure how true that is bc that craptastic Tommy Stevens pick had SP’s name written all over it

 

[RaginCajun83]

I remember reading that SP picked the 1st or 1st/2nd rd picks and Ireland picked the rest. Not sure how true that is bc that craptastic Tommy Stevens pick had SP’s name written all over it

Especially how they traded back into the draft just to screw with the Panthers

 

[DeuceMcAllisterFan]

Some of you guys forgot where we came from and just how bad were in the draft before he came to town. Not even sure how this is even a question.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I remember reading that SP picked the 1st or 1st/2nd rd picks and Ireland picked the rest. Not sure how true that is bc that craptastic Tommy Stevens pick had SP’s name written all over it

Especially how they traded back into the draft just to screw with the Panthers

We almost got in trouble for that as well

 

[Trey W.]

Especially how they traded back into the draft just to screw with the Panthers

Only to wind up cutting him and the Panthers picked him up anyway, great trade!

 

[guillermo]

And I think the answer is he may be, but we really don't know given how the Saints squander draft picks in trades and given Sean Payton's heavy hand in draft-day decisions in prior years.

Take look at our last five drafts, conceding that the 2017 draft was the type of draft a team has every 10 to 15 years. Since 2018, we have done the following--and all of these decisions were ratified or made by Loomis, and many were engineered by Payton:

1. In five drafts and with the loss of a first-round pick in 2023 and a second-round pick in 2024, we drafted only 27 players. In the 2022 draft, Baltimore drafted 11 players and Kansas City 10.

2. We have used six first-round picks from 2018 to 2023 on one star player, Chris Olave; and on Marcus Davenport, Cesar Ruiz, Payton Turner and Trevor Penning. Ruiz has shown improvement. We do not know what we have in Penning.

3. Our three second-round picks were hits--Erik McCoy, Pete Werner and Alontae Taylor, a pick I questioned.

4. Rounds 3 through 7 over five drafts have produced only relatively few players of note with the exception of Gardner-Johnson, from whom we received only three years of production. The others who provided at least some production have been Tre'Quan Smith, Paulson Adebo, Adam Tautman, Zack Baun and Kaden Ellis.

One narrative promoted by some is that the Saints have been so talented that we did not need many draft picks. I strongly disagree. And again, only those inside the organization know what role Ireland played with some high picks made. But overall our drafting in recent years has not been very good, and a question at least worthy of discussion is whether we can truly say how good Ireland is.

Any General Manager will have hits and misses drafting players. The more picks you have, the more chances you have to get good results.

And with that said, I don't think you can evaluate the players picked if you don't consider the trades. Cases like Davenport and Olave should carry more weight since the team traded future assets to get them. Nobody will complain we traded future picks in order to get Alvin Kamara, but you have to question the trade for Davenport, even when Trey Hendrickson was in our roster.

As you know, I am not in favour of trading the future for the present, both at draft picks and cap space. But I think there is even a bigger problem right now.

I don't see a connection of what we want and what we have.

We want to have a power running offense, and frankly, our interior offensive line is not playing up to par. We don't have a big power runner and our best options, Kamara and Hill, perform better when they are jack of all trades instead of pure runners. Right now we have a couple of speedsters at receiver instead of big possession receivers that will help blocking and moving the chains.

And on defence, I don't understand why it has been a couple of years without replacing Malcom Brown. Just remember how good we were at first down when no runner could attack the middle of the line. We had our defensive ends to protect the boundaries and this gave our linebackers the opportunity to swarm and gang tackle. We lost this once we went lighter inside.


There has to be a refreshment in our roster, but I see a problem where we want to fit a scheme with players that will perform better on a different strategy.

 

[sfidc3]

No one hits on all the picks and Jeff Ireland isn't perfect. But our drafts have mostly improved significantly since he and his scouting staff started with the Saints....IMO he is the most valuable guy in the Saints FO....

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

The principal reason for continuity is that with personnel selection, a team every year is acquiring players who fit what the team wants to do on offense and defense.

When Mike Tomlin, a defensive guy, became head coach of the Steelers, he did not change what Pittsburgh was doing defensively, but he changed to do what Pittsburgh had been doing and was built to do. Continuity should prevent a team drafting players to do what one defensive coordinator wants to do, and then after that coordinator leaves, drafting different players for a different type of defense favored by the new coordinator.

This is the general manager's job. I have no idea what type of offense we want to be. And I agree we have neglected the middle of our defense with our tackles and safeties. Again, in the past five drafts, look at the limited production in rounds three through seven. One reason is the limited number of draft picks we have had, and I suspect this was not Ireland's doing, but Payton's. But in those rounds, you can find good players, especially in the interior offensive line, and at defensive tackle, safety and running back. And last year, we cannot blame Payton for trading away so many picks. That falls squarely on Loomis.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

And I agree totally that drafting is really hard, which is the reason the overwhelming majority of NFL teams try to maximize the number of draft picks they have and resist doing, at least as a standard practice, trading away draft picks to move up.

Trading up should always be an option, but one selectively used. We trade away future picks, and then the following year we invariably find we do not have enough picks to do what we want so we again trade away future picks.

We have used a credit-card mindset for years with both the draft and the salary cap. At some point, we need to admit we are not a championship team and pay off the debt.

 

[max]

I have always thought Loomis’ strategy of only considering the players that you have in the cloud for each pick and giving up picks to trade up in most drafts is a mistake. Draft picks are like lottery tickets. Usually, you’re better off trading back for more than trading up for fewer, if you trust your scouts. If we had been using the trade back strategy and our scouting evaluations are good, we’d be a much deeper team now.

 

[slikk]

Finding talent isn't a issue keeping talent and not losing in via Free Agency or Trading away is another thing.

 

[tonyarm99]

Not near enough context to judge.

You have to factor in alot of things.

1. Unfortunate player injuries
2. Draft strategy, always following FA signings
3. Payton's cockiness for wanting diamond-in-the-rough players from non P5 schools, and overpaying with dealing away other top picks
4. The notion that the roster was well-set each season so they basically targeted a small handful of players, without valuing the rest of their picks.

Can't blame or evaluate Ireland really too much on the failures.

I hear this alot- what would make you think that Peyton wanted Davenport, or Davenport 2.0 (Turner)?? What about Ireland or Loomis? Maybe it was their calls??

 

[Dastheat_9]

We drafted a lot of players that we cut that are starters on other teams. It does make me sick to my stomache at times when I watch them. I have nothing but faith in our scouting dept. even our UDFA’s are on point.