Is online schooling inferior to onsite schooling? (1 Viewer)

[guidomerkinsrules]

IF this is going to be the norm, then schools need to take the time to teach students HOW to use online learning. They also need to train teachers on HOW to teach online. It's a skill set that neither side has right now.

YES!
And this is exactly what April to now should have been
Problem is you’re asking admins who have close to zero relationship with this teaching style to know and implement best practices
- not going to work
And it’s why most effort has been ‘recreate F2F class but put it in a video

 

[Yatman]

Remarkable (if not predictable) that among "experts" at the suspiciously prescient Event 201 last fall, no one from education was included. Medicine, health safety, emergency response, finance, yada yada, yet no forward thinking about an obviously urgent topic.

 

[Saint_Ward]

they probably should pass on some of the savings of cost on their end but unless enrollment takes a drastic drop, they have no incentive to do so. Schools trot out teams where they know they will get murdered by 7 or 8 touchdowns for nothing more than money. They aren't likely to just do the right thing unless the money is affected.

Those budgets are separate, usually.

However, the problem with the Universities, and any school, is that while they may not have the buildings occupied, they still have to pay for them. They might be able to trim on A/C and heating, but you still have to make sure you don't ruin the buildings with mold, freeze pipes, etc. And you still have some staff in there. the infrastructure doesn't just go away.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I can think of worse things in life than holding your kids back a year, if they have issues.

That, to me, is the worst case scenario, to inferior learning.

For college tuition, that's a bit different. I don't think they can mess with that. I do think they refunded a lot of room and board, though.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

are you ok paying full tuition for college yet not getting the full college experience?

Where/how would you pull money to give back to students as a discount

 

[whoah whoah]

I defer to Prof Scott Galloway. He has been singing this tune for a while now.

 

[efil4stnias]

Where/how would you pull money to give back to students as a discount

I would start in the departments that are directly related to "on campus" activities...security, disposal, groundskeeping etc. Im not privy to all the departments, just going off what i would imagine where the costs associated with would not be the same as when inhabited by 10,000 students daily.
Start there. Work outward.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I would start in the departments that are directly related to "on campus" activities...security, disposal, groundskeeping etc. Im not privy to all the departments, just going off what i would imagine where the costs associated with would not be the same as when inhabited by 10,000 students daily.
Start there. Work outward.

So essentially you’d be laying off the workers who have the smallest salaries (close to minimum wage), causing them great financial hardship for at most a 2% tuition discount (making up the number, but 2% might even by high)
Someplace like Yale, the best place to turn would be the endowment

 

[donato]

I think it’s the future, at least for many applications. You would still need other outlets for socializing, but it makes too much sense. For one, you could video record your class or have access to that to review previous classes. That would be extremely helpful. You need the platform to be efficient (Zoom etc), students to have access to proper technology and teachers who know how to properly utilize that technology.

The same could be said for work. The overhead savings of having smaller or in some cases no physical building are potentially enormous.

Then think of the environmental impact of people not driving around all day and to and from work. Certainly people still have the freedom to drive as much as they want, but let’s say it lowered car usage by 15-20%, the pollution and traffic reduction would be very noticeable.

Finally there’s the time savings of not having to commute.

 

[efil4stnias]

So essentially you’d be laying off the workers who have the smallest salaries (close to minimum wage), causing them great financial hardship for at most a 2% tuition discount (making up the number, but 2% might even by high)
Someplace like Yale, the best place to turn would be the endowment

Do you think it would stop there? i said work outward from there.

And i agree about the endowment part fully.

If Universities are a "business" then they should be treated as such. Yes, if that means you have to lay off some of the lowest wage employees, it happens every week in the US. thats business. No one is guaranteed employment unless stipulated by contract/charter.

So what you are asking folks to do is, outside of the PPP/Government assistance ( see refunds ), is for the middle class folks to pay full tuition for their childs education, yet receive 1/4 of that education experience, so that they may be able to keep their job?

Is it too much to ask a University to meet in the middle? a 2% reduction on $15,000/yr tuition is $300. Thats not going to keep John Doe to empty out garbage cans daily that are empty. Since they are a business, and treated as such, its incumbent upon THEM to figure this out. Thats what the top administrators get paid for. ( aka CEO ).

 

[RazorOye]

I think the students at Yale would have a tough time in this court case because much of the value in Yale's education is tied to lifelong connections and networking and respect of the degree. How are you going to quantify that? And how much of that would be impacted by distance learning?

I think Yale's pricetag is heavily dependent on a reputation that precedes a student's acceptance and enrolment. And its value continues long after graduation. The actual 'value' of Yale's in-class instruction relative to its distance-learning temporary proxy might end up being relatively close to nil.

I could easily see Yale making that argument and telling students if they'd prefer an education from a different university and decided to opt out and not pay fees because they don't think it's worth the money, then they have every right to make that decision.

There will be no shortage of people signing up to fill those spaces. There are waitlisted students who would be thrilled for all that a Yale degree offers, even if it means a year of distance learning

 

[Jeff Miller]

the education in and of itself is probably just as good if not better, however, the ability for young students, including high school students, to have enough self disciple to do the work at home is rare, very rare.

 

[RazorOye]

If Universities are a "business" then they should be treated as such.

Since they are a business, and treated as such, its incumbent upon THEM to figure this out. Thats what the top administrators get paid for. ( aka CEO ).

you're making an assumption, which is actually part of a HUGE ideological discussion about post-secondary's place in our society. I do not think you can flatly transpose the 'university is a business' in the same way you can a typical corporation. And I think the distinctions are critical.

In fact, I would say one of the reasons we find ourselves in this discussion and facing this dilemma is because, at least in part, of precisely the transpositional assumptions that the university is a business.

This is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American way of looking at postsecondary education with its associated costs. They've spiraled out of control and they are way outside the commensurate growth of inflation over the last couple of decades, in particular.

"University is business" and filling admin positions and boardrooms with CEOs and MBAs and business people have played a part.

If anything, I would advocate for a move away from the university-as-business model.

That's not to say there aren't valid concerns here for tuition-paying people.

But a public instution of postsecondary education run on non-profit ideals cannot be flatly, directly compared to Big Time Corporation, Inc or even Mom and Pop's.

 

[No2DC]

This a complicated question and it's largely dependent on what understanding of an educator is. No matter what level you teach at, it involves a variety of different hats. Think about your favorite teacher in the past and ask yourself what did you appreciate about her or him. What was it about that person that you valued? Was it that they taught you something educational or were they a mentor or counselor to you? A good educator, in my view, teaches students something beyond what's in a book. This is what is very difficult to replicate online because the personal interaction is no longer there. I feel bad for young people going through high school or college right now because the on-campus experience is often one of the most memorable of your life.

 

[efil4stnias]

you're making an assumption, which is actually part of a HUGE ideological discussion about post-secondary's place in our society. I do not think you can flatly transpose the 'university is a business' in the same way you can a typical corporation. And I think the distinctions are critical.

In fact, I would say one of the reasons we find ourselves in this discussion and facing this dilemma is because, at least in part, of precisely the transpositional assumptions that the university is a business.

This is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American way of looking at postsecondary education with its associated costs. They've spiraled out of control and they are way outside the commensurate growth of inflation over the last couple of decades, in particular.

"University is business" and filling admin positions and boardrooms with CEOs and MBAs and business people have played a part.

If anything, I would advocate for a move away from the university-as-business model.

That's not to say there aren't valid concerns here for tuition-paying people.

But a public instution of postsecondary education run on non-profit ideals cannot be flatly, directly compared to Big Time Corporation, Inc or even Mom and Pop's.

And thats exactly right. They want to make money hand-over-fist thru tuition/sports contracts etc, but hide behind the guise of "public institution ideals".

They shouldnt be allowed that ability.

Decisions arent made on the basis of whats good for the student. Its made on the basis of cost/dollars. My argument is that if that is indeed the case, then you get treated as such by the consumer of any "business". But they want it BOTH ways. Business when times are good....Public entity when times are bad.