Is online schooling inferior to onsite schooling? (4 Viewers)

[No2DC]

you're making an assumption, which is actually part of a HUGE ideological discussion about post-secondary's place in our society. I do not think you can flatly transpose the 'university is a business' in the same way you can a typical corporation. And I think the distinctions are critical.

In fact, I would say one of the reasons we find ourselves in this discussion and facing this dilemma is because, at least in part, of precisely the transpositional assumptions that the university is a business.

This is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American way of looking at postsecondary education with its associated costs. They've spiraled out of control and they are way outside the commensurate growth of inflation over the last couple of decades, in particular.

"University is business" and filling admin positions and boardrooms with CEOs and MBAs and business people have played a part.

If anything, I would advocate for a move away from the university-as-business model.

That's not to say there aren't valid concerns here for tuition-paying people.

But a public instution of postsecondary education run on non-profit ideals cannot be flatly, directly compared to Big Time Corporation, Inc or even Mom and Pop's.

This is one of the biggest dangers out there. I know several educators who have advanced degrees who want to get MBAs to make themselves more attractive for administrative posts. My view is that it runs counter what education is about because the focus switches from the value of education to what fields yield jobs, and then we get STEM vs. Humanities, etc.

 

[RazorOye]

This a complicated question and it's largely dependent on what understanding of an educator is. No matter what level you teach at, it involves a variety of different hats.

I spent the entire morning, addressing and stuffing envelopes for each one of my graduating seniors from this past year. In each one, I put a bookmark that I had custom made.

Each year, my 'gift' to my grads is a poem - "I am Offering you this Poem" by Jimmy Santiago Baca. The poem is about how the narrator has nothing to give his audience, except an ear to listen. A shoulder to lean on. A trusted, safe place/person if the world ever gets to rough.

At the end of each year, I read it to them - and explain how I see my role as teacher and potential mentor going forward. And the refrain of the poem is "I love you." And I explain what I think the author means by that to his audience and what I mean by that to them.

I got them printed up as a bookmark, but was unable to give it to them because of COVID.

I retrieved them from school last week and collected all the addresses for each Graduate. I hand-addressed each envelope, stuffed it with the bookmark, applied the postage, and on the back of each envelope I wrote a short paragraph to each of them. I talked about what they each meant to my year, individually, as a teacher and coach and human being and mentor.

This might seem like a humblebrag, but it's really meant to underscore the work that I do and how I see myself and what I think my role is - building on what No2DC wrote above.

Also, I spent yesterday morning with a graduate from 3 years ago who is applying to law schools and wanted help with his Personal Statement and sought me out.

I don't think my job as teacher of these kids ever ends.

Reciepts: (from just a little while ago, literally)

 

[efil4stnias]

This is one of the biggest dangers out there. I know several educators who have advanced degrees who want to get MBAs to make themselves more attractive for administrative posts. My view is that it runs counter what education is about because the focus switches from the value of education to what fields yield jobs, and then we get STEM vs. Humanities, etc.

My oldest , we have been discussing what she thinks she would like to do and keeps circling back to "educator".

She would be a wonderful educator. It comes natural to her. ( was asked by her swim coach to teach swim strokes to new swimmers - she not the fastest swimmer in the pool, but her strokes are textbook )

I want her to be successful. But more importantly, i want her to be happy. I hope that by the time she enters College, she hasnt lost that love for teaching and follows her heart and not pay attention to the $$$. ( just marry well )

 

[efil4stnias]

I spent the entire morning, addressing and stuffing envelopes for each one of my graduating seniors from this past year. In each one, I put a bookmark that I had custom made.

Each year, my 'gift' to my grads is a poem - "I am Offering you this Poem" by Jimmy Santiago Baca. The poem is about how the narrator has nothing to give his audience, except an ear to listen. A shoulder to lean on. A trusted, safe place/person if the world ever gets to rough.

At the end of each year, I read it to them - and explain how I see my role as teacher and potential mentor going forward. And the refrain of the poem is "I love you." And I explain what I think the author means by that to his audience and what I mean by that to them.

I got them printed up as a bookmark, but was unable to give it to them because of COVID.

I retrieved them from school last week and collected all the addresses for each Graduate. I hand-addressed each envelope, stuffed it with the bookmark, applied the postage, and on the back of each envelope I wrote a short paragraph to each of them. I talked about what they each meant to my year, individually, as a teacher and coach and human being and mentor.

This might seem like a humblebrag, but it's really meant to underscore the work that I do and how I see myself and what I think my role is - building on what No2DC wrote above.

Also, I spent yesterday morning with a graduate from 3 years ago who is applying to law schools and wanted help with his Personal Statement and sought me out.

I don't think my job as teacher of these kids ever ends.

Reciepts: (from just a little while ago, literally)

there arent enough "Oyes" in the educational world. I wish there was.

 

[No2DC]

I spent the entire morning, addressing and stuffing envelopes for each one of my graduating seniors from this past year. In each one, I put a bookmark that I had custom made.

Each year, my 'gift' to my grads is a poem - "I am Offering you this Poem" by Jimmy Santiago Baca. The poem is about how the narrator has nothing to give his audience, except an ear to listen. A shoulder to lean on. A trusted, safe place/person if the world ever gets to rough.

At the end of each year, I read it to them - and explain how I see my role as teacher and potential mentor going forward. And the refrain of the poem is "I love you." And I explain what I think the author means by that to his audience and what I mean by that to them.

I got them printed up as a bookmark, but was unable to give it to them because of COVID.

I retrieved them from school last week and collected all the addresses for each Graduate. I hand-addressed each envelope, stuffed it with the bookmark, applied the postage, and on the back of each envelope I wrote a short paragraph to each of them. I talked about what they each meant to my year, individually, as a teacher and coach and human being and mentor.

This might seem like a humblebrag, but it's really meant to underscore the work that I do and how I see myself and what I think my role is - building on what No2DC wrote above.

Also, I spent yesterday morning with a graduate from 3 years ago who is applying to law schools and wanted help with his Personal Statement and sought me out.

I don't think my job as teacher of these kids ever ends.

Reciepts: (from just a little while ago, literally)

My grandmother was a primary school teacher (1st grade) and she would show me Christmas cards (humbly) from former students and she was in her 80s. Her former students probably finished the 1950s and they were writing her in the 1980s. I respect the hard work you put in for your students!

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Do you think it would stop there? i said work outward from there.

And i agree about the endowment part fully.

If Universities are a "business" then they should be treated as such. Yes, if that means you have to lay off some of the lowest wage employees, it happens every week in the US. thats business. No one is guaranteed employment unless stipulated by contract/charter.

So what you are asking folks to do is, outside of the PPP/Government assistance ( see refunds ), is for the middle class folks to pay full tuition for their childs education, yet receive 1/4 of that education experience, so that they may be able to keep their job?

Is it too much to ask a University to meet in the middle? a 2% reduction on $15,000/yr tuition is $300. Thats not going to keep John Doe to empty out garbage cans daily that are empty. Since they are a business, and treated as such, its incumbent upon THEM to figure this out. Thats what the top administrators get paid for. ( aka CEO ).

Looks like Oye got to this before I did
Agreeing with him
Applying the business model to education(and also the arts) was/is a tremendously bad idea
- for many reasons, not least if which is that the business model almost seems designed to fail

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

This is one of the biggest dangers out there. I know several educators who have advanced degrees who want to get MBAs to make themselves more attractive for administrative posts. My view is that it runs counter what education is about because the focus switches from the value of education to what fields yield jobs, and then we get STEM vs. Humanities, etc.

Your view is correct

 

[Bayouboy]

Yes, for now because I understand they want to get back to the "normal" experience as soon as possible. I also understand the professors and staff still need to be paid. It's not like they intend to go full "University of Phoenix" and never have in person classes again. And if they did, then we would reevaluate where she is attending. They are just trying to get through this mess the same as all of us.

Even if it lasts the entire semester? If intramural sports, gyms, libraries, etc. etc. cannot be fully utilized by my student, why should I have to pay full price??? This is my son't first semester in college and the fees that went along with his tuition were staggering!!! I had no idea college would be THIS expensive. His "student excellence fee" was $850. A lot of the amenities and fluff that go into the college experience are funded by all of these absurd fees. Yet, I'm (or my son) supposed to incur the brunt of the hardship? Fork that!!!!!

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

For the 2020-21 year, tuition was due in MAY 2020. this year i paid half. The other half due in November.



Unfortunately for my youngest, my wife paid that in full. So that is a loss should we go back to on-line.

What kind of operation you running there?


You need to let your wife know what’s up

 

[rajncajn]

My daughter's school was good enough to provide a housing and dining refund after they shut down and went all online last semester. They are about to go back in 2 weeks and we've already gotten notice that one of her classes has shifted to online. Now she's only got two classes face to face. If they end up all going online again I'm expecting the option to have her come home to finish and getting another refund. Even if she's down to one class I'm considering having her commute.

 

[Bayouboy]

This is, in a lot of ways, a uniquely American way of looking at postsecondary education with its associated costs. They've spiraled out of control and they are way outside the commensurate growth of inflation over the last couple of decades, in particular.

This can't be understated. The cost of college is almost to the point of not being worth going.....at least in some degree fields.

I can tell you this - the colleges that charge a premium that are not named Harvard, Yale or Stanford will take a HUGE hit and may not be able to survive if this virus sticks around for a long period of time. It a complete shirt show. I hope a vaccine is the magic bullet.....and gets here STAT.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Even if it lasts the entire semester? If intramural sports, gyms, libraries, etc. etc. cannot be fully utilized by my student, why should I have to pay full price??? This is my son't first semester in college and the fees that went along with his tuition were staggering!!! I had no idea college would be THIS expensive. His "student excellence fee" was $850. A lot of the amenities and fluff that go into the college experience are funded by all of these absurd fees. Yet, I'm (or my son) supposed to incur the brunt of the hardship? Fork that!!!!!

Have you written your school asking about this?

 

[efil4stnias]

What kind of operation you running there?


You need to let your wife know what’s up

you right.

Peoples Elbow when i get home. Off the counter.

 

[RazorOye]

there arent enough "Oyes" in the educational world. I wish there was.

that's very kind and gracious, but I'd counter with a couple of things.

First, I love my job. Having a foot in the academic world and a foot in instructional world teaching high school in addition to being able to coach basketball? I live a charmed life. Being able to make solid money for all of that, well, icing on the cake.

Years ago, before I even started the PhD work, I wanted exactly this sort of position and here I am.

Really just another rung for me to climb, and I'm ahead of schedule.

So, it's easy for me to do this because I love it. It genuinely makes me happy.

Secondly, I think there are a lot of Oyes and SuperOyes out there - sometimes it feels a bit like luck of the draw, though. Some kids get lots, some not enough.

I will say when it comes to being in class vs. distant... distant is *SO MUCH* more work. The regular routine is a lot easier.

But still, thanks