Is our receiving situation really that bad? (1 Viewer)

[ItFan]

The OP just proves the opposite: it’s definitely a concern. While the overall volume is similar, having our production unbalanced on MT means that on any given play where he’s “unavailable” we have few other options. An equal production shared on let’s say three targets is more difficult to defend. So on the plays where MT is not the designed choice or the rare times he’s closed, we’re often doomed to ugly outcomes as we have seen against Atl and Tampa.

PS: so IMO an unbalanced attack has less chances against good defensens than a balanced one with similar production. Also, we’re bound to the range of MT, that means no deep shots and more screens/shorts to Kamara rather than slot routes. This can be risky, again, against good defenses planning the right way. Colston/Moore/Meachem/Henderson was just perfect, a complete array to bail out from any situation.

 

[BiloxiSaint1]

we’re often doomed to ugly outcomes as we have seen against Atl and Tampa.

Can you elaborate on this "ugly Tampa outcome" you mention? I thought we swept them handily.

 

[ItFan]

Can you elaborate on this "ugly Tampa outcome" you mention? I thought we swept them handily.

Some drives late third/early fourth quarter. I recall one where Payton called two consecutive passes five yards behind the line of scrimmage, with awful results. The offense got stuck in that timeframe.

Ps: here are the plays:
-6 yards to Murray
-1 yard to Kamara
Incomplete to Trequan
The drive ended with a punt after a 3rd&17

Next drive, 3&7, 4 yards to Kamara and punt.
We were up by ten with 5 minutes remaining. If not for our beloved Jameis with the pick-six, we could end the game on a three point lead. A game we dominated and had some problems to close offensively.
I think a reliable 2nd receiver taking 5-8 yards on one of those plays would make a lot of difference.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

If Thomas was to ever forbiddingly miss time because of injury, Kamara and Cook probably slide over/slide up into lining up as WRs more often, while Murray and D. Washington carry the load at RB. Right now if MT was the one injured, and TQS and Kirkwood were healthy, the offense will still be featured around getting the ball in the hands of Kamara and Cook as much as possible.

They’ve proven to be our second and third best receivers even if TQS and Kirkwood were both healthy. AK and Cook aren’t respected as elite playmakers like they should be whenever the receiver depth conversation is brought up, even though they produce like it when they line up as receivers.

Alvin Kamara and Jared Cook are apart of our WR depth.

 

[State Of Affairs]

I don’t think the argument is that the Saints are bad passing team, the problem is most of the production comes from Thomas. When teams are able to handle Thomas or if Thomas gets hobbled in any way, the Saints will struggle.

the offense would be open up significantly with another receiving threat. Doesn’t mean they can’t make it happen without another threat but it’s putting a lot of eggs in one basket.

I'm just not convinced our receiving situation is as dire as people are claiming. I've seen posts about how "if we only had Team X's receivers, we'd be unstoppable". I took a look at some teams receiving production and I gotta say, we aren't as bad as people make it sound.

The Packers and Vikings are two teams we are often compared to and it's believed they have the superior receiving corps to the Saints. "If only we had the vikings receivers". But when looking at the stats for this year, all 3 offenses are almost identical in receiving production.

Saints


Packers


Vikings


All 3 offense produce almost identically with the exception of Green Bay spreading the ball around more evenly. We are actually eerily identical to the Vikings. Both use the RB and the TE is in top 4 in production. Both teams have key contributors missing games this year as well.

Now the Cowboys have, statistically, the best passing attack in the league and legit WR1 and WR2, but they are one of the few teams that can claim to have that. The Chiefs? Their best receiver this year is Kelce, the TE, by a long shot.

So there are arguably a couple teams (Cowboys, Falcons) with better receiving corps overall than the Saints, but to say we are only Michael Thomas and have no passing threat outside of that is just not true.

 

[Hey BAY BAY!!!]

When do Kirkwood come back?

 

[jasonsw]

At the end it is simple as this. The Saints this year are the most complete team in the N.F.L. Not every area on the team can be an A. If the weakest part of the team is W.R or pass catchers I'll take that.

I can't think of any team in the N.F.L. that has the 1-2 duo of Kamara and Thomas catching the ball. They have combined for 147 catches with catch rate around 86 percent. Kamara still has caught 53 passes for the year while missing two games. Murray has done a good job catching the ball as well. Cook is on the rise and Ginn usually makes a big clutch catch once a game.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

If we stop overlooking the obvious on-the-field WR versatility that Kamara and Cook have shown as dual threats, there won’t be anymore uncertainty about our receiver depth. We looking right at the answers to the receiver depth questions whenever we see Cook and AK play, but ignoring them on purpose to focus on the stats of who’s listed as a “WR.” Those two have outright performed and received targets as the second and third receivers.

Kamara has made it obvious he’s a RB that can play WR, or a WR that can play RB. He’s equally used as both. AK has performed like one of the best as a receiver and targeted enough as a receiver to officially be considered both positions. We have enough depth at RB to consider Kamara a RB and WR; and we have enough blocking TE depth to consider Cook a TE and WR.

 

[Nick Name]

I said it before and I'll say it again: if we don't get a #2 WR that would be a #1 WR on half oh NFL teams, a giant meteor will hit the dome on game day and we're all gonna die. FACT.

 

[renegadewa]

Think about it. They're throwing to the 3rd string quarterback, that should answer your question and be enough said. It's not by design it's because the 3rd string quarterback is better than the receivers not name Thomas. That's a shame. They're going to have it tough in the playoffs unless coach SP can pull a miracle with what he got. The defense will have to play there but off

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried really hard to be wrong.
The reason Taysom Hill is on the field is most definitely by Sean Payton's design. He is Payton's gadget player and he's not on the field because he's the second best receiver on the team!!

The playoffs are going to be tough ANYWAY and if MT and AK are neutralized there isn't another receiver that is going to make a difference.

Teams have been jamming Thomas and doubling, and tripling him and knocking him off his routes all season and defenses still can't hang with him!! Almost every catch he makes he looks like he's wide open. Do you remember in the Bears game when Thomas ran a single receiver route and was triple covered and still made an 18 yard catch?

You guys keep talking about adding another receiver to take the "pressure" off of Thomas but have you ever thought that elite athletes like Thomas and Kamara actually welcome and thrive on that pressure? It's what drives and rewards them at the same time!!

I just think that all this "needing" another receiver baloney is nothing but panic coming from the fans that think they know better than the coaching staff and front office!!

 

[bleedit1960]

Saints went 13-3 last year with about the same type players. The running backs were the 2nd receiver. Last time we had 2nd and 3rd receiver was 2016 Cooks, Thomas, and Snead. We went 7-9 that year. Got to have complete team. The one problem I have seen is rushing. We only have 5 rushing TD's in 10 games. The Redzone and 3rd- and- long has killed us.

 

[bobad]

Also, we’re bound to the range of MT, that means no deep shots and more screens/shorts to Kamara rather than slot routes. This can be risky, again, against good defenses planning the right way. Colston/Moore/Meachem/Henderson was just perfect, a complete array to bail out from any situation.

I truly believe RAC is a crucial part of the game plan. I think about half of our pass plays are designed to maximize RAC. Drew and all the receivers work hard to get it, and they do get a lot.

 

[head trauma]

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried really hard to be wrong.
The reason Taysom Hill is on the field is most definitely by Sean Payton's design. He is Payton's gadget player and he's not on the field because he's the second best receiver on the team!!

The playoffs are going to be tough ANYWAY and if MT and AK are neutralized there isn't another receiver that is going to make a difference.

Teams have been jamming Thomas and doubling, and tripling him and knocking him off his routes all season and defenses still can't hang with him!! Almost every catch he makes he looks like he's wide open. Do you remember in the Bears game when Thomas ran a single receiver route and was triple covered and still made an 18 yard catch?

You guys keep talking about adding another receiver to take the "pressure" off of Thomas but have you ever thought that elite athletes like Thomas and Kamara actually welcome and thrive on that pressure? It's what drives and rewards them at the same time!!

I just think that all this "needing" another receiver baloney is nothing but panic coming from the fans that think they know better than the coaching staff and front office!!

We'll see

 

[head trauma]

It wouldn't be Taysom getting 10 targets a game. I wouldn't expect his use to change at all. In fact, I wouldn't expect this theoretical #2 WR many are touting to get 10 targets - if we had this much lamented for #2 WR. Between our TEs, RBs, and other WRs, we would distribute those 10 targets.

In terms of receiving yard production, the following have more production than Taysom's 102 yards:

AK - 373 yards
Ginn - 310 yards
Cook - 275 yards
Murray - 165 yards
Josh Hill - 168 yards

Even TQS, who has hardly played with his injuies, has only 14 receiving yards less than Tayson.

Don't forget, on the Saints 2011 offense (the gold standard of offenses) the top receiver by almost 300 yards was a TE. A wide receiver was second in receiving production that year, followed by a RB - Sproles.

This 2019 Saints team just put more "chips" into defense, O-Line, RB, and TE. Let's see how it works out. That's all we can do.

We'll see

 

[head trauma]

I missed the Tampa game, but in watching the highlights, it appeared Thomas was not happy about the amount of targets he was getting early in the game. Is that something to factor into the equation here? That Thomas demands that amount of production every week? I'm not bagging on Thomas in any way, its the facts that the receiving production overall is there, Thomas has a hunger like nobody else, and nobody is stopping it. Drew Brees has one of the most catchable balls in the league, and can run through progressions like nobody else. I think if we had to, our other receivers would would step up and fill the void.

They're going to get him hurt