Is the fix in for Taysom? (1 Viewer)

Ihartsaints

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We have all heard the praise for Jameis from Payton, Jordan and the media all but anointing Winston the starter.

I expect that, if the goal is to draw JW back to the team. What is odd to me is the silence from the team, Taysom and his agent.

Taysom must be aware of the "You are not the one" vibe floating around. I would expect a bit more push back from him or his agent. Their silence sounds like complacency to me. Makes me wonder if there isn't a quiet deal at work here.

If Taysom has any doubt where he stands with the team, I just think there would be more buzz ...
 
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Ihartsaints

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I love how you constantly try to call double standard, but constantly present one side information.

3-1 against a batch of opponents that are 17-46. If I can pull up the same level of competition for Winston. I'm pretty sure he'd have a winning record, but you want to compare two drastically different sample sides that has very little correlating evidence, but will always superficially favor Hill when he only had one great game.

I wish you guys drop the whole body of work arguments, because all those games from don't mean anything. They are both signed. They are gonna go Mortal Kombat for starting spot and the best thing for us. We are gonna have a different offense/style. We don't know what to expect from Hill or Winston with 100% of their attention trying to be not Tampa Bay QB or Drew Bress Back up, but Sean Payton Starting QB and his system that he builds around them..

I just want there to be fair ground and both sides are trying make theoretical high ground when the decision of who wins the job is completely out of our hands. So, the argument are just silly and more filler than a Dragon Ball Z episode.

It's not our fault or decision who becomes QB. So, I think more people should quit trying to pick sides and just be in the neutral ground.
did you actually read my post because you obviously missed this part?

"Yes, I'm being sarcastic and mocking how fans of Winston overestimate his chances."
 

NOFALCONS10

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I don't see how this makes much difference since Jameis had big WRs/TEs in TB

Which will hurt his true value with the team

You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.


There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.


This is not a roster designed at all with the idea of helping Winston succeed as it's top priority and that is very apparent for all to see.

This qb race is mainly a farce at this point.
 

NOFALCONS10

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I don't know, man. It's our first offseason post Brees, and we had literally zero money to sign any starter outside of fullback.

There were a few reports prior to the draft that our focus was going to be defense, so it came as no surprise that's where our first three picks went. Past that, it's hard to go fishing for starters that late in the draft regardless of what Sean's vision of the offense is for this year. Maybe they like Trautman a lot. Maybe they like what Callaway, Smith, and Harris bring to the table. Either way, we're kind of strapped in that we had no cap room to operate and we still had to fill holes on the defensive side of the ball as well.

I also don't think our WR situation is as bad as you think it is. I think Callaway played beyond his years last year when he filled in for Sanders, it's rare for rookie WR's (let alone UDFA) to be able to consistently find the soft spot versus zone coverage like he did. I know Smith's numbers weren't big last year, but I thought he made big time plays and we honestly never been able to take advantage of his full skillset with Brees limited arm strength. I think Smith can have an eye-opening year with Jameis getting him the ball. Last, Harris was shockingly good even outside of gadget plays last year. It was quite literally 3rd down and Harris in the Chicago playoff game, and I think we beat Tampa if he doesn't go out hurt in the 1st half. The only concern with Harris is durability.

I don't think there's any chance that Sean has his mind made up on who is starting at QB for us. This is just the roster situation that we're dealt and they're handling it the best that they can.
See post above.

There's no way they expect 4.90 40 Winston to play as well as Taysom with only a wrs group that had only one healthy wr all of last year and a TE group with only one receiving threat.

If Trautman goes down who else is there and even Trautman is less proven than Graham was in his first year having only 15 catches and 1 TD to his credit so far in his career.
 

Groovepro

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You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.


There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.


This is not a roster designed at all with the idea of helping Winston succeed as it's top priority and that is very apparent for all to see.

This qb race is mainly a farce at this point.
That is an interesting take! I think Winston will be given every opp and all on his own shoulders. But, there MIGHT be a bit of something to what you said. He will have a bit of scheme tweak that favors Winston BUT won't have 2 different playbooks. Book and Hill favor what he truly wants to run and Winston will need to be able to run that style of O without as much of the designed runs, which I am sure our RB room would like...LOL.
 

NOFALCONS10

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This offense is designed to run like the Ravens and Seahawks now.

Payton is probably expecting something like 4000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing and 35 TDs out of Hill.

Hill threw over 900 yards with only 4 starts.

He had nearly as many yards rushing in only 4 games as an actual starter and a few designed runs here and there as a back as Russell Wilson did Full time.

Put yourself in the mind of an offensive genius here.

I seriously doubt that the fact that the Ravens have won the most games in the NFL since Lamar Jackson has been the starter has escaped notice from Payton.

He's probably trying to capture lightning in a bottle with Hill.

 

NOFALCONS10

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That is an interesting take! I think Winston will be given every opp and all on his own shoulders. But, there MIGHT be a bit of something to what you said. He will have a bit of scheme tweak that favors Winston BUT won't have 2 different playbooks. Book and Hill favor what he truly wants to run and Winston will need to be able to run that style of O without as much of the designed runs, which I am sure our RB room would like...LOL.
What I'm getting at is that the system isn't currently designed intentionally so that Winston will fail, it's just that it isn't designed primarily to help him succeed either.

The deck is stacked and table is tilted in favor of Hill by a wide margin.

There's no way Payton would march Brees out there with wrs and TEs like that without at least having more depth to play to a not as athletic QBs strengths.
 
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NOFALCONS10

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In 2021 Russell Wilson threw for 40 tds with 3 TEs accounting for no more than 251 each and he's always thrived with less than stellar route-runners outside of Tyler Lockett.

Payton likely sees Taysom as comparable to Wilson.


This would make sense considering the saints also inquired about possibly trading for Russell Wilson too.
 

Groovepro

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What I'm getting at is that the system isn't currently designed intentionally so that Winston will fail, it's just that it isn't designed primarily to help him succeed either.

The deck is stacked and table is tilted in favor of Hill by a wide margin.

There's no way Payton would match Brees out there with wrs and TEs like that without at least having more depth to play to a not as athletic QBs strengths.
I agree. The same "by default" runs into with some people mentioned he wanted to copycat the "run ability QB". He happened to have Hill and when he started utilizing him he saw he had that run ability and really saw when he started having him at more QB snaps. You can't not but be intrigued with that as an OC. ...so many options and guessing game/mismatches can be set up to confuse the D.

I also have been touting that it is Hill's spot to lose. I don't understand the narrative that Hill "sucked" during his starts. The Falcons game he threw for over 300 and looked really good as a passer, ran when called and ran to extend plays when didn't have a down field option (for the most part). He worked through progressions, looked off safeties, good anticipation throws and some tight windows with ball placement only the WR could get to (for the most part). Of course, it was against the Falcons, but they always play "up" to us and aren't as much of a dumpster fire as we would like to admit.

I think CSP would be comfortable with this set up if Brees was playing if that it what FA and the draft gave him, but I do think we would have tried to bring in a speedier receiving TE and definitely speed on the outside.

Again, interesting take I wouldn't have come up with myself and there is merit to that thinking!
 
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Go watch the Taysom interview I posted in this thread... See if that changes you POV. And Book will not make the final 53... His only shot is the PS this season - Unless he completely looks like a different player then what I saw in College.




Taysom will be a QB... Either the starter for this team this year... or the backup riding the bench, and outta here next year. This is what he wanted, and it's the opportunity Sean promised him. Not sure why people don't see that.
I do appreciate your enthusiasm here. But the NFL is a production business. And in that business at QB there are two critical components: talent and experience. Winston wins both of those hands down over both TH7 and Book.

Go ahead and continue your hype show for TH7. Talent and experience will win out.

SFIAH
 
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Ihartsaints

Ihartsaints

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So I made the point that if they're going to pass on all that, they would sure enough pass on Taysom as starter.
Why? All what. The Heisman is not a very good predictor of QB success in the NFL. Flutie, Newton, Detmer, Mariota, Winston, RGIII, Tebow, ....
 

Taker597

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Here for this garbage narrative that Hill is done playing Joker if he LOSES the QB competition.
 
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You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.


There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.


This is not a roster designed at all with the idea of helping Winston succeed as it's top priority and that is very apparent for all to see.

This qb race is mainly a farce at this point.
Uh huh. Well I guess I don't get it. Mainly I don't get what exactly they see in Hill as a QB other than his scrambling ability (which probably won't last much longer). His play is cringeworthy & there hasn't been much improvement since he got here

And I know some will say he'll be working @ QB exclusively this offseason (as if he's never done this before) like it'll make a difference but I'm not so sure

Not to say that Winston is a worldbeater...he's clearly not. But 1 thing he still has goin for him is upside. And I don't think it's an unfair assessment to suggest that Hill has spent all of his up @ this pt
 
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BBarnes6182

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He already is a Starting QB in the NFL.

And among all starting QB's since 1970 who have started more than 1 or 2 games he has the 6th best winning record.

Among active NFL QB's he has the 4th best record. Jameis is burried in the weeds with a .400 percentage. Tied with Chase Daniels at 40th among active QB's.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic and mocking how fans of Winston overestimate his chances.

View attachment 157338

Lol!

One thing I’ll say is I’m not excited about either, I just know one has been a starting QB and does have some potential. The other has no real shot to be a legit primary starting QB in the league long term.

Should be an interesting season to say the least
 

guidomerkinsrules

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You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.
all cogent analysis
There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.
there is no POSSIBLE way this is the only conclusion to draw - this is on of maybe 20 conclusions to draw and it's probably somewhere around 13th in reasonableness
 

sfidc3

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You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.

There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.

Well, I for one, clearly don't get it....
 

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