Is the fix in for Taysom? (29 Viewers)

Ihartsaints

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We have all heard the praise for Jameis from Payton, Jordan and the media all but anointing Winston the starter.

I expect that, if the goal is to draw JW back to the team. What is odd to me is the silence from the team, Taysom and his agent.

Taysom must be aware of the "You are not the one" vibe floating around. I would expect a bit more push back from him or his agent. Their silence sounds like complacency to me. Makes me wonder if there isn't a quiet deal at work here.

If Taysom has any doubt where he stands with the team, I just think there would be more buzz ...
 

Groovepro

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Based on 4 career starts (his first 4 starts at QB in approx 4 years).

There was another guy a few years back that played QB exclusively all through college... never had a major injury... and ended up a top draft pick...
His 1st 4 career starts he went 0-4, had 3 TDs and 11 INTs.

Was that a big enough sample size to write that guy off and say that he didn’t have what it takes to be a starting caliber NFL QB?

His coaches thought “no” and let him continue to work on it... that player was Peyton Manning.

...and before you tell me about how bad that Colts team sucked, he had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, Marcus Pollard, and Jerome Pathon among his weapons.

Point is, it takes more than 4 starts at QB to tell what a guy can/can’t do.
...on top of that, I don't get the bashing of his play during those games filling in for Drew. There is much said about fumbles and that is what most stake their assessment on. I'd rather have him fighting to make plays out of nothing and that effort end up in a fumble than a horrible decision to a wide open WR in the flat and throw a pick 6. Hill has not had the true QB snaps and always progressing.

On another topic, there is nothing that CSP has said that has anointed Winston as the "clear" starter. He has said he likes what he has shown, he likes the POTENTIAL he has, purely from arm strength, etc. He says the same things about Hill, Seimian, etc. He won't throw a player in the competition under the bus when Winston needs to be lifted and given positive reinforcement.
 
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That sounds like a reason for Taysom Hill to be the starting QB.

With an offseason to focus on playing QB exclusively, and an offense schemed towards his strengths... Taysom Hill could run a version of the Baltimore offense with a CSP spin on it.

The fumbling issues can be fixed.

Taysom has the arm to make all of the throws... and folks posting video clips of Taysom under throwing Harris in the playoffs or Sanders in the 1st game vs Atlanta are being unfair IMO.
Hill came into that Vikings game as a 1-off play where he just chucked the ball up. Yes, Harris was wide open, but the ball was completed, and the underthrow was better than an overthrow...
The throw to Sanders was in Taysom’s 1st start at QB in like 4 years! ...and it came after only 1 week of practicing with the 1st team offense as the starter!

In the Denver game, CSP went on record saying that they basically scrapped their entire plan when they heard Denver was forced to start a PS WR at QB, and Taysom was told to take no chances and play extra careful!

The Philly game was a team loss, and yes, Taysom didn’t play well and made a critical fumble late, but again... that was his 4th start ever in the NFL. That loss was more on the defense and their inability to stop the run and Hurts more than anything.

Everyone just assumes that it will be Winston at QB... but everyone assumes the same thing last season when Brees got hurt... and it was Taysom.
He can not make all the throws look back to his college tape. He has always struggled with down field throws and indecisiveness.
 

Nolan

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...on top of that, I don't get the bashing of his play during those games filling in for Drew. There is much said about fumbles and that is what most stake their assessment on. I'd rather have him fighting to make plays out of nothing and that effort end up in a fumble than a horrible decision to a wide open WR in the flat and throw a pick 6. Hill has not had the true QB snaps and always progressing.

On another topic, there is nothing that CSP has said that has anointed Winston as the "clear" starter. He has said he likes what he has shown, he likes the POTENTIAL he has, purely from arm strength, etc. He says the same things about Hill, Seimian, etc. He won't throw a player in the competition under the bus when Winston needs to be lifted and given positive reinforcement.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that he's anointed Winston as the clear starter. There's also no reason to believe that Hill has an inside track to be the starter either. Sean would be doing this franchise a disservice by not letting these guys compete and letting the best man win. It's not Hill's job to lose. The job is up for grabs, period.
 

Groovepro

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that he's anointed Winston as the clear starter. There's also no reason to believe that Hill has an inside track to be the starter either. Sean would be doing this franchise a disservice by not letting these guys compete and letting the best man win. It's not Hill's job to lose. The job is up for grabs, period.
There is a large collective of people who keep "quoting" CSP of Winston being the clear starter. This thread has comments to that. There WILL be a big competition and Payton has a certain trust in Hill. If Winston wins the nod, he will have earned it "hands down". That being said, Hill isn't being touted as the starter either, but he has a bit of a leg up on Winston at this moment due to being on the team a while, progressing and they know what they have in him more than with Winston. So, with that, Winston will have to do a LOT to show he can be the guy. If he does, WIN/WIN for us. Of course CSP will want a legit competition and will field the player he TRUSTS the most.
 

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I just have to laugh. Recently asked how far into the season if Winston has a losing record would you go before making a change. Surprisingly (or not) the JW fans were arguing that even after an off season and true preseason to settle in he should have several games, even a whole season to get acclimatized and used to the system. Yet Taysom, who was not tasked with the backup role and practiced each week on his game install instead is washed up after 4 games when he was called up without warning to fill in.

See why I'm laughing?

  • JW's flaws can be coached out of him. Taysom's can't.
  • JW has a high upside, Taysom has already peaked.
  • JW after a preseason should have maybe half a season to settle in. Taysom has 4 games sprung on him out of the blue and he is washed up.
If you can't see the double standard and humor I can't help you.
In a vacuum, everything you said is reasonable but there is some cold reality that you simply are ignoring.

it is obvious that Winston has the skills to play QB at a high level... you’re right, he may never reach that level but where your argument falls apart is to watch Taysom Hill play and still think that he has the raw ability to be an upper level QB, you’re fooling yourself.

So pulling the plug on Winston without giving him every chance to “settle in” is A) ridiculous in of itself and B) pulling the plug on the season because Winston failing does not mean that Taysom is better, likely means the Saints don’t have a QB on the roster that they can win with.

lastly, there is something I’m not considering and that is that Winston is a COMPLETE DISASTER... I doubt that will be the case BUT i suspect that if JW is not Drew Brees, guys like you will be clamoring for Hill to “get his shot”
 

Taker597

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it is obvious that Winston has the skills to play QB at a high level... you’re right, he may never reach that level but where your argument falls apart is to watch Taysom Hill play and still think that he has the raw ability to be an upper level QB, you’re fooling yourself.
Yeah this is a weird narrative with both Winston and Taysom fan. Jaysom/Tameis fans just want the best player to win and put the team in the best postion on the field and locker room to win games. If not... We are drafting a new QB after 17 dreadful games. It's all a win-win in the long run, but I prefer to not waste a year of prime players to go back to the draw board and then probably draft a QB... Then, develop him over 3 years. Then, the offense is completely wasted.
 
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In a vacuum, everything you said is reasonable but there is some cold reality that you simply are ignoring.

it is obvious that Winston has the skills to play QB at a high level... you’re right, he may never reach that level but where your argument falls apart is to watch Taysom Hill play and still think that he has the raw ability to be an upper level QB, you’re fooling yourself.

So pulling the plug on Winston without giving him every chance to “settle in” is A) ridiculous in of itself and B) pulling the plug on the season because Winston failing does not mean that Taysom is better, likely means the Saints don’t have a QB on the roster that they can win with.

lastly, there is something I’m not considering and that is that Winston is a COMPLETE DISASTER... I doubt that will be the case BUT i suspect that if JW is not Drew Brees, guys like you will be clamoring for Hill to “get his shot”
So the cold reality is that Winston is much better than Hill? How do their stats compare? Doesn't Hill have the edge? (overall and for their first 4 starts)
 

Groovepro

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He can not make all the throws look back to his college tape. He has always struggled with down field throws and indecisiveness.
I have been saying that for a long time. He is all POTENTIAL at this point. He has the tools TO make all the throws, but he hasn't at this point in his career. His foundation, wind up and release are different for almost each throw and he has performed that way his entire career. His short throws to the flats, especially on outs is a good example. As someone who played the QB position on many levels and an AFL tryout invite and a coach/trainer at HS, college and semi-pro working with NFL, CFL and AFL players, there are certain things you can pick up on and I really watch with a QB. There are certain intangibles that players have that always translate to a higher level and things that can be coached/tweaked/fixed. There are certain things that some players just have in their DNA that are a "bear" to get out of their DNA, if you can. Many times, with practice and training they will seem to be progressing, but in a game or when the pressure starts to get on them, they revert to what they have always done because it is so ingrained. I have that feeling with some of Winston's issues. IF he can fix them, it will be a re-invention of a QB that I have never seen happen. IF so, great...we all WIN!
 

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Taysom is just not very good as a quarterback. He never has been. His running threat is what makes the idea attractive, but as a pocket passer he just isn't very good.
 

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Taysom is just not very good as a quarterback. He never has been. His running threat is what makes the idea attractive, but as a pocket passer he just isn't very good.
This is a reason that Hill has the edge. CSP called totally different games for each of his starts and that is a lot to ask for a QB with limited snaps at the #1 or as true QB in general. He looked off safeties, went through progressions and some very accurate throws with pressure where only the WR could make the play. His run ability, of COURSE adds a dimension, but to say he isn't or can't be a good passer...I can't agree with that at this juncture.


Here is the reason people are not so UP on trusting Winston...watch the whole thing. Not a ton of tipped balls, not dropped balls...some of these are mind boggling...even with blurry vision. I think 1 legit tipped ball and one legit drop that WR lost and went around his back. He also that year threw 13 balls to defenders that they dropped.


I will say, when I watch Winston v 49ers, he did have nice touch, anticipation and got the ball out quick. Encouraging at the beginning. He started to press at the end and that was not so much encouraging, but still, even with this simpler scheme, he looked good until he started forcing throws.
 
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Look, I get it... There are lot of people that want Winston to win the job, and Taysom to keep his role as the Joker... I realize that would be the best case scenario for the team (for Winston to be good enough to win the job)... I really do.... You get a Traditional QB and keep your Swiss Army Knife weapon...

The problem is... That's not going to happen.

Taysom is going to be a QB this year, whether he's a starter or a backup... he going to be a QB.

He's always said, his goal is to be a QB - Sean said he sees him as a QB - The FO told him he would get the opportunity to be a QB when Drew retired... He is going to spend the entire offseason working as ONLY a QB. He can not play his normal Joker role if he is the #2 QB....

If he doesn't win the starting role this year... He is gone next year.... to find a job as a QB.

People need to realize this going into the season.
 

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This is a reason that Hill has the edge. CSP called totally different games for each of his starts and that is a lot to ask for a QB with limited snaps at the #1 or as true QB in general. He looked off safeties, went through progressions and some very accurate throws with pressure where only the WR could make the play. His run ability, of COURSE adds a dimension, but to say he isn't or can't be a good passer...I can't agree with that at this juncture.


Here is the reason people are not so UP on trusting Winston...watch the whole thing. Not a ton of tipped balls, not dropped balls...some of these are mind boggling...even with blurry vision. I think 1 legit tipped ball and one legit drop that WR lost and went around his back. He also that year threw 13 balls to defenders that they dropped.


I will say, when I watch Winston v 49ers, he did have nice touch, anticipation and got the ball out quick. Encouraging at the beginning. He started to press at the end and that was not so much encouraging, but still, even with this simpler scheme, he looked good until he started forcing throws.
Winston's INT's were high under Arians, but most QBs not name Brady had the same result their first year with him as their coach.

Winston has the tools to be great. At best Taysom can be really good. Winston is younger and has less injuries in his history. I don't believe Taysom is a true passer and runners don't always last long at this level. Especially those that run with force.

Winston just has a higher ceiling to me and stability with the organization and coaching staff is something he's never had. Didn't he have like 3 different head coaches and multiple offensive systems in 5 years in Tampa? Many wouldn't do well with all of that change.
 

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Look, I get it... There are lot of people that want Winston to win the job, and Taysom to keep his role as the Joker... I realize that would be the best case scenario for the team... I really do.... You get a Traditional QB and keep your Swiss Army Knife weapon...

The problem is... That's not going to happen.

Taysom is going to be a QB this year, whether he's a starter or a backup... he going to be a QB.

He's always said, his goal is to be a QB - Sean said he sees him as a QB - The FO told him he would get the opportunity to be a QB when Drew retired... He is going to spend the entire offseason working as ONLY a QB. He can not play his normal Joker role if he is the #2 QB....

If he doesn't win the starting role this year... He is gone next year.... to find a job as a QB.

People need to realize this going into the season.
I'll help Taysom pack!✌
 
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Look, I get it... There are lot of people that want Winston to win the job, and Taysom to keep his role as the Joker... I realize that would be the best case scenario for the team (for Winston to be good enough to win the job)... I really do.... You get a Traditional QB and keep your Swiss Army Knife weapon...

The problem is... That's not going to happen.

Taysom is going to be a QB this year, whether he's a starter or a backup... he going to be a QB.

He's always said, his goal is to be a QB - Sean said he sees him as a QB - The FO told him he would get the opportunity to be a QB when Drew retired... He is going to spend the entire offseason working as ONLY a QB. He can not play his normal Joker role if he is the #2 QB....

If he doesn't win the starting role this year... He is gone next year.... to find a job as a QB.

People need to realize this going into the season.
This is why it's Taysom's job to lose. The front office doesn't want Taysom to leave in 22. Winston is going to have to play amazing ball to win the job.
 

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