Is the fix in for Taysom? (1 Viewer)

[Infoman]

I honestly don't know how anyone can defend anything Winston has done up to this point... As of today his factual past consists of being a 1st overall pick bust that was available for the price of a snickers bar last offseason, that throws to the opposition as much as his own teammates, and as soon as his former team cut him - they literally won a SB.

I hope, for the sake of my team, he can be something more than what he has been up to this point... But as of today... That's who he is.

 

[Saint Taysom]

I honestly don't know how anyone can defend anything Winston has done up to this point... As of today his factual past consists of being a 1st overall pick bust that was available for the price of a snickers bar last offseason, that throws to the opposition as much as his own teammates, and as soon as his former team cut him - they literally won a SB.

I hope, for the sake of my team, he can be something more than what he has been up to this point... But as of today... That's who he is.

 

[madake63]

Sorry but it's not me who shifted the goals posts, I was replying to someone else who said that if taysom isn't QB at saints he will just leave and go somewhere else, implying as if there were starting jobs out there for him. you were the one who then jumped in with a different take.

I have nothing against taysom, my whole point is that I don't buy into the opinion that if taysom doesn't win QB he is done with our organization. I think there's scenario where he realizes a joker position Within our organization is another way forward.

I'm not even saying he loses out to winston.

I think Taysom would definitely stay in 22 as the joker if he felt he was given a fair shot at starting and it didn't work out.

 

[Saintamaniac]

I think Taysom would definitely stay in 22 as the joker if he felt he was given a fair shot at starting and it didn't work out.

LOL, as if he has somewhere to go and be the starter in '22. He'll be with the Saints in '22 after that $140 million contract he signed disappears into thin air. Teams that needed a starter either drafted, signed or traded for a starter. Some teams even signed a started and drafted their future starter.

 

[Ihartsaints]

LOL, as if he has somewhere to go and be the starter in '22. He'll be with the Saints in '22 after that $140 million contract he signed disappears into thin air. Teams that needed a starter either drafted, signed or traded for a starter. Some teams even signed a started and drafted their future starter.

Unlike Jameis boosters and Taysom haters, who are certain they have psychic powers and can predict the future performance of players. I don't know where either will end up.

I can only evaluate each based on their public performance todate and the trend in their growth. I did not see any growth in Jameis in his last years in Tampa. In contrast, Taysom surprised his critics. He wasn't supposed to be accurate as a passer and the pundits all predicted a run-heavy offense when he was selected to start. Instead, Payton kept him in the pocket and made him throw. There is evidence he was hit as he threw to Sanders. So even the lame-duck his haters tend to hang their hats on might not be his fault. The Denver game was all on Payton and Payton owned it. In the Eagles game, he played well. It was the defense and kicking game that was flatfooted.

 

[RajCaj80]

I just have to laugh. Recently asked how far into the season if Winston has a losing record would you go before making a change. Surprisingly (or not) the JW fans were arguing that even after an off season and true preseason to settle in he should have several games, even a whole season to get acclimatized and used to the system. Yet Taysom, who was not tasked with the backup role and practiced each week on his game install instead is washed up after 4 games when he was called up without warning to fill in.

See why I'm laughing?

• JW's flaws can be coached out of him. Taysom's can't.
• JW has a high upside, Taysom has already peaked.
• JW after a preseason should have maybe half a season to settle in. Taysom has 4 games sprung on him out of the blue and he is washed up.

If you can't see the double standard and humor I can't help you.

Fair enough, but it's worth noting that JW's play (boom or bust) was by design of his coaching staff at Tampa. Their approach was to "let the big dog eat" and that the home runs would outweigh the strikes. JW's stats with the team show that in spades.

I don't think you can definitively say ALL of his bad throws can be chalked up to a failed offensive strategy at TB, but you can make a reasonable argument that we could see a significant reduction in INTs under Payton (and Drew's) system of prioritizing ball control over home runs. Winston even said as much when asked about what he learned from Drew. What you do get with Winston (vs Hill) is the physical talent to take calculated deep shots, when available, and lots of experience as a starting QB.

On the other hand, Taysom's short comings weren't so much as a result of coaching, but more to do with his lack of experience at the role and his inability to make & execute on quick reads. His best success was when he was given limited read responsibilities, which can be easily defended and extremely limits the playbook of a guy who prides himself at being a creative offensive play caller.

All that said, my personal opinion (based on what we've seen from both QBs in the league) is that Winston has a smaller gap to overcome than Taysom, and is why I think he's got a better inside shot at getting the starter role. It is entirely possible that Taysom gets enough pure QB reps before the start of next season and experiences a huge surge in QB IQ...I just think Winston has a headstart.

 

[madake63]

LOL, as if he has somewhere to go and be the starter in '22. He'll be with the Saints in '22 after that $140 million contract he signed disappears into thin air. Teams that needed a starter either drafted, signed or traded for a starter. Some teams even signed a started and drafted their future starter.

He wants to compete for his dream....it's not that complicated. He'll go elsewhere to compete for it, not to be signed as a starter.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

No, it's not... It's simple math... If he loses the starting job in competition...

He's the only backup that can come in a keep the team competitive...

His days as a "Joker" player are over.

It's pretty simple... He's a QB now... He's either starter and the future... Or he's the backup to Winston this year, and he's out next year.

Questioning Taysoms' dedication to this team, or his selflessness is fairly silly at this point considering what he has already given up for this team, and his track record for doing any and everything he can to help the team win at any position.

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Let's be honest. Taysom has exactly 4 more NFL starts than Book. Book is a 3 year starter at the most elite levels of college football. The rookie can most certainly handle holding a clipboard and handling a spot start or two.

SFIAH

 

[Infoman]

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Let's be honest. Taysom has exactly 4 more NFL starts than Book. Book is a 3 year starter at the most elite levels of college football. The rookie can most certainly handle holding a clipboard and handling a spot start or two.

SFIAH

I am just going by what Sean and Taysom have both said... He will be a QB this year....

And Maybe T. Semien can hold a clipboard this season... but Book is a PS guy this year.... If he's lucky enough to be cut and clear waivers.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I am just going by what Sean and Taysom have both said... He will be a QB this year....

And Maybe T. Semien can hold a clipboard this season... but Book is a PS guy this year.... If he's lucky enough to be cut and clear waivers.

Book won't make it to the practice squad. Somebody will pick him up off waivers and put him on their 53.

The Saints have had 2 QBs and a Swiss Army Knife on the 53 for the last 3 years. I don't see this season being any different.

SFIAH

 

[SystemShock]

Teams that needed a starter either drafted, signed or traded for a starter. Some teams even signed a started and drafted their future starter.

Doesn't that happen every year?

 

[Infoman]

Book won't make it to the practice squad. Somebody will pick him up off waivers and put him on their 53.

The Saints have had 2 QBs and a Swiss Army Knife on the 53 for the last 3 years. I don't see this season being any different.

SFIAH

Go watch the Taysom interview I posted in this thread... See if that changes you POV. And Book will not make the final 53... His only shot is the PS this season - Unless he completely looks like a different player then what I saw in College.

Saints beat writer Nick Underhill tweeted, "Taysom Hill has changed up his approach to training this offseason. He previously did some work to prepare for playing multiple positions. He is strictly training as a QB this offseason."

Saints Quarterback Competition between Winston and Hill is Heating Up

The New Orleans Saints quarterback competition between Jameis Winston and Taysom Hill will be intense at Saints Training Camp.

www.si.com

Taysom will be a QB... Either the starter for this team this year... or the backup riding the bench, and outta here next year. This is what he wanted, and it's the opportunity Sean promised him. Not sure why people don't see that.

 

[Ihartsaints]

Fair enough, but it's worth noting that JW's play (boom or bust) was by design of his coaching staff at Tampa. Their approach was to "let the big dog eat" and that the home runs would outweigh the strikes. JW's stats with the team show that in spades.

I don't think you can definitively say ALL of his bad throws can be chalked up to a failed offensive strategy at TB, but you can make a reasonable argument that we could see a significant reduction in INTs under Payton (and Drew's) system of prioritizing ball control over home runs. Winston even said as much when asked about what he learned from Drew. What you do get with Winston (vs Hill) is the physical talent to take calculated deep shots, when available, and lots of experience as a starting QB.

On the other hand, Taysom's short comings weren't so much as a result of coaching, but more to do with his lack of experience at the role and his inability to make & execute on quick reads. His best success was when he was given limited read responsibilities, which can be easily defended and extremely limits the playbook of a guy who prides himself at being a creative offensive play caller.

All that said, my personal opinion (based on what we've seen from both QBs in the league) is that Winston has a smaller gap to overcome than Taysom, and is why I think he's got a better inside shot at getting the starter role. It is entirely possible that Taysom gets enough pure QB reps before the start of next season and experiences a huge surge in QB IQ...I just think Winston has a headstart.

Let's start with your premise that the interceptions were home run related. Seriously I keep hearing nuggets like that which have no basis in fact.

He was dead last in deep-ball accuracy in 2018 and 21st in 2019.



This repeated claim, he is some mystical gunslinger, is a myth ... no, make that a falsehood. Compare him to the top five and he sucks.

But that isn't the biggest bone I have to pick with your unresearched post, You say

"We could see a significant reduction in INTs under Payton (and Drew's) system of prioritizing ball control over home runs"​

​

His deep throws only accounted for 3 of his interceptins and 2 of the three were in the shortest range group. His mythical "GunSlinnging" was never the problem. It was his inability to read the under cover and judge if they would be able to close on the ball path in time for the interception. The media said he had a blind spot for defenderd between him and his intended reciver.

There is myth (fanthink) and reality (facts)

 

[Ihartsaints]

I love how you constantly try to call double standard, but constantly present one side information.

3-1 against a batch of opponents that are 17-46. If I can pull up the same level of competition for Winston. I'm pretty sure he'd have a winning record, but you want to compare two drastically different sample sides that has very little correlating evidence, but will always superficially favor Hill when he only had one great game.

I wish you guys drop the whole body of work arguments, because all those games from don't mean anything. They are both signed. They are gonna go Mortal Kombat for starting spot and the best thing for us. We are gonna have a different offense/style. We don't know what to expect from Hill or Winston with 100% of their attention trying to be not Tampa Bay QB or Drew Bress Back up, but Sean Payton Starting QB and his system that he builds around them..

I just want there to be fair ground and both sides are trying make theoretical high ground when the decision of who wins the job is completely out of our hands. So, the argument are just silly and more filler than a Dragon Ball Z episode.

It's not our fault or decision who becomes QB. So, I think more people should quit trying to pick sides and just be in the neutral ground.

did you actually read my post because you obviously missed this part?

"Yes, I'm being sarcastic and mocking how fans of Winston overestimate his chances."​

 

[NOFALCONS10]

I don't see how this makes much difference since Jameis had big WRs/TEs in TB

Which will hurt his true value with the team

You don't get do you?

Like I said in the response earlier the saints made a conscious effort in always insuring that Brees always had a 4.5-4.6 40 speed From Shockey to Graham, to Watson to Fleener to Cook.

And even then he always had backup TEs who were promising flex Tes like Dan Arnold or David Thomas or Billy Miller who also ran 4.6 and specialized in receiving.


This is the first year since Payton has been here that He has started a 4.8 40 TE and a bunch of UDFA TEs as depth who don't even excell at receiving.

Even Nick Vannett's career high in yards is 267.


Throughout the entire draft process from start to finish they were only looking for Blocking TEs.

The wrs for the Bucs were either taller 6'5 + like Evan's and Vincent Jackson or faster like Breshad Perriman, DeSean Jackson, or Chris Godwin.


There's only one reason that they would prepare their offensive roster like this and that's because they expect Hill to start.


This is not a roster designed at all with the idea of helping Winston succeed as it's top priority and that is very apparent for all to see.

This qb race is mainly a farce at this point.