Is There A Win Total That Saves DA’s Job? (2 Viewers)

Saintslfc13

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I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree. There are only 32 openings for this job. I also would say you can walk in to the job and know you’re safe for a few years to build your team and dismantle this hot mess we are currently in.
There might be 32 but we won't be the only team looking if we go that route. I think he should go, but the way it happens needs to be professional. Firing him after one year would not make anyone think they're secure in the job, but keeping him on could be worse for the organization.
 

44slayer

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Michael Thomas played better this year than last.

This has gotten straight up comical. The 3 games Michael Thomas played this year were clearly better than the 0 he played last year. This defense of Allen is BIZARRE.

You can make the case, I think on rocky foundation, that firing any coach after 1 season is a never a good idea. I think Allen excused himself from that protection with his disastrous 3 years in Oakland. If he finishes 5-12, it will be his 3rd 12 loss season out of 3 full seasons as a HC. The other season he was well on his way to at least 12 losses. Any HC candidate with half a brain will say, well the dude lost 12 games, AGAIN.

Then, Allen being the 'continuity' guy who.....murdered the continuity. I just dont now how you rebuild, by carrying over the old failure.

We had Payton through 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Its not like weve done this before. But defending Allen to this degree is on some other level of odd.
 

Goatman Saint

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There might be 32 but we won't be the only team looking if we go that route. I think he should go, but the way it happens needs to be professional. Firing him after one year would not make anyone think they're secure in the job, but keeping him on could be worse for the organization.
But the Saints historically don’t switch coaches quickly. Mora was here for a long time, even after he should’ve walked away. They held on to Ditka 3 years too long. Haslett also they kept for a while long. Payton was the second longest tenured coach. I mean sometimes you just get a bad hire. That’s all there is to it.
 
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Not sold on DA. He was not a very good coach leading the Raiders. He seems lost out there as a HC. He is a good coordinator. One other important thing that I have not seen mentioned is Pete Carmichael. He is horrible. His play calling is horrendous and with no imagination. It was SP calling the plays previously and definitely not Carmichael.
 

No2DC

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This has gotten straight up comical. The 3 games Michael Thomas played this year were clearly better than the 0 he played last year. This defense of Allen is BIZARRE.

You can make the case, I think on rocky foundation, that firing any coach after 1 season is a never a good idea. I think Allen excused himself from that protection with his disastrous 3 years in Oakland. If he finishes 5-12, it will be his 3rd 12 loss season out of 3 full seasons as a HC. The other season he was well on his way to at least 12 losses. Any HC candidate with half a brain will say, well the dude lost 12 games, AGAIN.

Then, Allen being the 'continuity' guy who.....murdered the continuity. I just dont now how you rebuild, by carrying over the old failure.

We had Payton through 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Its not like weve done this before. But defending Allen to this degree is on some other level of odd.
There is no defense for DA, I think some people don't think Loomis will pull the trigger and claim his record in Oakland should be expunged, so he's technically a 1st-year coach. Plus, if he fires Allen he's on the hot seat next.
 

BreesusSaves

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We had Payton through 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Its not like weve done this before. But defending Allen to this degree is on some other level of odd.

Payton's an offensive minded coach.

2007: 4th in total yards, 12th in scoring.
2008: 1st in total yards, 1st in scoring.
2014: 1st in total yards, 9th in scoring.
2015: 2nd in total yards, 8th in scoring.
2016: 1st in total yards, 2nd in scoring.

Averaged 2nd in total yardage, 6th in scoring. Payton's offensive mind was working, he just hadn't found the right DC to pair with during those bad years. He also earned a lot of leeway after the whole winning a Super Bowl thing and making the Saints a genuinely good team. Guys like that have to basically commit mass murder to get fired.



Dennis Allen's a defensive minded coach.

2012: 18th in yards, 28th in scoring.
2013: 22nd in yards, 29th in scoring.
2014: fired after losing the first four games. His defense in those four games allowed an average of 365.25ypg and 25.75ppg. That puts them on pace to finish 23rd in yards and 26th in scoring defense for that year compared to the final season stats of the league.
2022: 12th in yards, 25th in scoring currently.

Allen so far averages out to 19th in yards and 27th in scoring on defense when he's the Head Coach.

He's a defensive minded coach without the defensive numbers to back it.

Just no way it will sit well with me if they retain him.
 

JackDiesel

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Firing DA after one year doesn't set a bad precedent since he was brought in on the basis of continuity. We were a winning team with a winning coaching staff, he failed to carry that on. Loomis should make it clear that the next coaching staff will get a longer leash and be given a few seasons to right the ship.

A failure to fire him after this season would be catastrophic for the franchise. He'll no doubt draft a QB and if he fails next season he'll just blame it on having a rookie QB and Loomis will give him a 3rd year. 3 years of losing will destroy why good will we had with free agents and it's not like New Orleans is all that an attractive of a destination to live anyways.
 

Lazarus

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I tend to agree with this, as well as what I believe to be the biggest factor into why DA stays next season… The Saints are NOT an attractive job for a new HC next season… No QB, no 1st rounder, and negative cap space to go along with an aging and injury plagued vet core.
Hate to say it but I agree I think it will be an unattractive opening and I don't think the organizational culture is one that will make a change after one season what I see is a lame duck interim situation midseason in 2023 after which I hope the cap issue / CSP compensation issues have been resolved making it a more attractive opening
 

dtc

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This has gotten straight up comical. The 3 games Michael Thomas played this year were clearly better than the 0 he played last year. This defense of Allen is BIZARRE.

You can make the case, I think on rocky foundation, that firing any coach after 1 season is a never a good idea. I think Allen excused himself from that protection with his disastrous 3 years in Oakland. If he finishes 5-12, it will be his 3rd 12 loss season out of 3 full seasons as a HC. The other season he was well on his way to at least 12 losses. Any HC candidate with half a brain will say, well the dude lost 12 games, AGAIN.

Then, Allen being the 'continuity' guy who.....murdered the continuity. I just dont now how you rebuild, by carrying over the old failure.

We had Payton through 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Its not like weve done this before. But defending Allen to this degree is on some other level of odd.

I'm not defending allen. I'm defending the plan and the process.

you are associating previous success by a very young coach hired by an idiot to run a bad franchise in prediction of what DA can be here with a healthy squad.

CSP retired after piecing together an ok record last year with dismal talent. DA is not CSP, but the hand he's been dealt is hard to win with.

If he poops himself on the rest of the season I may change my mind, but I doubt he will and I know that the Saints as an organization are far less prone to deluded histrionics than fans.
 

dtc

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Firing DA after one year doesn't set a bad precedent since he was brought in on the basis of continuity. We were a winning team with a winning coaching staff, he failed to carry that on. Loomis should make it clear that the next coaching staff will get a longer leash and be given a few seasons to right the ship.

A failure to fire him after this season would be catastrophic for the franchise. He'll no doubt draft a QB and if he fails next season he'll just blame it on having a rookie QB and Loomis will give him a 3rd year. 3 years of losing will destroy why good will we had with free agents and it's not like New Orleans is all that an attractive of a destination to live anyways.

Have any of you folks ever heard of the term "opportunity cost?

I ask because you seem to think there's some magical option we have that will return us to 13-3.

There isn't. We had it once in 06 and it's likely to never come again. The path is to stay the course and let the plan work and odd luck run its course.
 

44slayer

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I'm not defending allen. I'm defending the plan and the process.

you are associating previous success by a very young coach hired by an idiot to run a bad franchise in prediction of what DA can be here with a healthy squad.

CSP retired after piecing together an ok record last year with dismal talent. DA is not CSP, but the hand he's been dealt is hard to win with.

If he poops himself on the rest of the season I may change my mind, but I doubt he will and I know that the Saints as an organization are far less prone to deluded histrionics than fans.

Excuses are like buttholes, everybody has one. Sean Payton never lost more than 9 games in a season. Allen could end up with his 3rd with 12 losses in 3 full seasons.

I quit taking anything seriously after “Michael Thomas was playing better this year than last”. This has gone off the rails into the realm of the absurd.

This is a doozy as well “The path is to stay the course and let the plan work and odd luck run its course.”

Follow the titanic to the bottom of the ocean with Allen. Unreal.
 

No2DC

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I'm not defending allen. I'm defending the plan and the process.

you are associating previous success by a very young coach hired by an idiot to run a bad franchise in prediction of what DA can be here with a healthy squad.

CSP retired after piecing together an ok record last year with dismal talent. DA is not CSP, but the hand he's been dealt is hard to win with.

If he poops himself on the rest of the season I may change my mind, but I doubt he will and I know that the Saints as an organization are far less prone to deluded histrionics than fans.
This is my pushback. All teams have injuries, that's a lame excuse. Yes, Oakland was not the best destination, but the team did better before and after Allen. Everyone makes this excuse, but it's not true. The coaches before and after Allen had better records. Also, before Payton, we weren't necessarily considered the best franchise.
I don't think Loomis will pull the trigger, but this notion that DA got a raw deal in Oakland is not valid; guys like Sean, McVay, and others get it right from day one.
 

dtc

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Excuses are like buttholes, everybody has one. Sean Payton never lost more than 9 games in a season. Allen could end up with his 3rd with 12 losses in 3 full seasons.

I quit taking anything seriously after “Michael Thomas was playing better this year than last”. This has gone off the rails into the realm of the absurd.

This is a doozy as well “The path is to stay the course and let the plan work and odd luck run its course.”

Follow the titanic to the bottom of the ocean with Allen. Unreal.

I'd be willing to bet that my suggestion is more likely to be successful and more likely to be followed than yours.

I'd be willing to bet you won't put your money where your mouth is either.

Let's play. 1000 donation to SR - if they fire DA I pay. If they don't, you do. Before the end of this season.

Another 1000 if the Saints with DA win 9 games next year or less. If less than 10 wins next year, I donate to SR. 9 or more and you donate to the cause.

Man up!
 

dtc

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This is my pushback. All teams have injuries, that's a lame excuse. Yes, Oakland was not the best destination, but the team did better before and after Allen. Everyone makes this excuse, but it's not true. The coaches before and after Allen had better records. Also, before Payton, we weren't necessarily considered the best franchise.
I don't think Loomis will pull the trigger, but this notion that DA got a raw deal in Oakland is not valid; guys like Sean, McVay, and others get it right from day one.
Oakland has been a dumpster fire for decades or they would never have hired an unqualified coach like DA in the first place. Blaming him for losing is about like blaming a fat guy for being hungry.

Loomis will not fire DA. I know this to be true unless he gets caught screwing the new male cheer crews.

All teams have injuries.

Most teams don't win the superbowl.

We have more injuries than anyone and because of that we can't win sheet.

It's not an excuse to consider we have half our payroll on the sidelines.

I've tired of arguing with people who believe a new coach should be able to elevate practice squad players with 1 day's roster presences into all pros. It's not possible and it's numbing to consider.

Without your best players you cannot win in a parity-based league.

Stop the stupid.
 

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I disagree completely. I think it's asinine to expect anyone to succeed at anything in short order given impossible odds. The Saints and society would be better off learning patience and lessening the microwave society.

CSP was lucky in 06. All the stars aligned. That's not how it goes when you have 9 out of 22 starters on the sideline next to your retired former QB.

I’m not buying the injury excuse because to me it’s more than just the record. It’s the demeanor of the team, they look completely rudderless most of the time….with just as many or even more injuries last year they competed and fought hard last season….I don’t see anywhere near that level of intensity this year….

That stars aligned/lucky comment is total BS….CSP knows how to lead and build a good team culture, it is pretty clear to me that DA doesn’t….
 

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