It seems some companies never learn... (1 Viewer)

[SWJJ]

nanny state here we come now the government is infringing upon a company's right to have its workers explode. whats next?

So the private company is automatically at fault no research or further investigation neccessary?


apparently you have never dealt with OSHA

 

[V Chip]

Gas prices will go up

For BP.

There are lots more companies that sell/refine/produce gasoline that wouldn't raise their prices just because BP screwed the pooch.

 

[BHM]

To anyone who has ever had to deal with OSHA, they can interpret a rule or law totally different than you do. You could think you're in compliance and they can come in and write you up for 50 different things.

lus-un2: rep

Dead on accurate. Just like the 1990 page health care bill, these regulations are so wordy and complex that it is impossible to be in full compliance. These regualtions are, by design, impossible to follow. I hope they enjoy that 87 million dollar fine. In due time, there will not be a single large corporation left in this country.

Does any one here honestly think BP willingly and purposely failed to follow the OSHA regulations? Why would a company knowingly risk the lives of hundreds and face the wrath of OSHA?

 

[dtc]

Does any one here honestly think BP willingly and purposely failed to follow the OSHA regulations?

yes

Why would a company knowingly risk the lives of hundreds and face the wrath of OSHA?

money

 

[V Chip]

Why would a company knowingly risk the lives of hundreds and face the wrath of OSHA?

Profit?

You act as if there haven't been multiple incidents of companies large and small risking the lives of employees/customers, ignoring safety concerns, and discounting the consequences in order to make more money.

 

[Norwajun]

lus-un2: rep

Dead on accurate. Just like the 1990 page health care bill, these regulations are so wordy and complex that it is impossible to be in full compliance. These regualtions are, by design, impossible to follow. I hope they enjoy that 87 million dollar fine. In due time, there will not be a single large corporation left in this country.

Does any one here honestly think BP willingly and purposely failed to follow the OSHA regulations? Why would a company knowingly risk the lives of hundreds and face the wrath of OSHA?

http://www.csb.gov/assets/document/CSBFinalReportBP.pdf

Read that, then comment. Honestly, until you have read the CSB, OSHA and Baker Panel Investigation Reports, don't assume. They knew the consequences of their actions/inactions and proceeded anyway. As for the Williams-Steiger OSH Act being overly wordy, how come many other companies in the same industry as BP have no problem complying? The company I work for is a prime example. There are only 8 Safety / PSM Coordinators (of which I am one) in the entire Western US, yet we manage to comply fully with not only the letter, but the intent of the PSM standard.

BP has 8 Safety Coordinators per square foot, it seems, and still can't get it right.

 

[Deuceistheman]

yes



money

The company I work for does a lot of consulting work in most of the local refineries in SE Louisiana. I can tell you that right now, the big project each one of them are studying are their safety relief systems. This work is one of the highest priorities they are all evaluating. It is a daunting task and will cost lots of money but is worth every dollar to save them from a catastrophic event, which could kill hundreds of people if it would happen at peak work hours.

Catastrophic refinery events are rare, but they can occur. All of these events require a root cause analysis. In most instances, it is determined that if certain measures were taken, the event could have been prevented; thus the stiff fines. Some times, it may come from poor record keeping, to poor maintenance procedures, or simply neglect and all of the above just to name a few.

For you people that honestly believe and are naive to think they would overlook safety in lieu of making the necessary modifications to not have to spend money and would rather be fined after such an event, you are clueless. Do anyone of you realize a refinery, or refineries could be shut down from production by OSHA and FINED, if they were found to have the information that showed they were aware of the issue and did nothing about it? Come on folks, use your brain.

 

[BHM]

http://www.csb.gov/assets/document/CSBFinalReportBP.pdf

Read that, then comment. Honestly, until you have read the CSB, OSHA and Baker Panel Investigation Reports, don't assume. They knew the consequences of their actions/inactions and proceeded anyway. As for the Williams-Steiger OSH Act being overly wordy, how come many other companies in the same industry as BP have no problem complying? The company I work for is a prime example. There are only 8 Safety / PSM Coordinators (of which I am one) in the entire Western US, yet we manage to comply fully with not only the letter, but the intent of the PSM standard.

BP has 8 Safety Coordinators per square foot, it seems, and still can't get it right.[/QUOTE]

So they pay for 8 Safety Coordinators per square foot but decided to ignore all safety and compliance issues because they think OSHA will go away one day?

 

[mister pc]

apparently you have never dealt with OSHA

guess again. i am OSHA certified as is everyone else in my line of work. and for those of you wondering, yes companies do intentionally circumvent OSHA safety regulations. i see it happen all the time, working next to groups trying to get things done faster or easier or cheaper so they dont follow all the safety regulations.

 

[Jeff Miller]

I've see this type of thing on a smaller scale a couple of times. In each instance the violation wasn't really intentionally done to make extra money or extra profit. Its just that the OSHA mandated change is a realy inconvience to operations to opperate, or would incurre a significant captial invenstment with no return at all other then satisifying a government regulation that they have gotten by not worrying about for years.

In each instance the company simply went on with business as usually untill a surprise inspection levied a fine. Things would change. but untill the fine was handed down.

 

[saintsfanflorida]

OSHA sucks. I have my OSHA 30 certification, and that was the most boring 30 hours of my life. It has its purpose, but it just goes too far. Then the different job sites I'm on have requirements that go past the OSHA requirements. The place I've been working lately make me tie off if I go over four feet off the ground on a step ladder. It's really funny. I climb down off the ladder and pick stuff up on the floor while I'm still tied off. I had the safety guy get on to me for not wearing gloves while I was terminating very small wires. There is no way to do certain tasks with gloves on. The safety guy doesn't use tools of any kind and walks around wearing gloves. I asked him why and he said it's in case he falls down. It's all getting silly.

 

[dtc]

The company I work for does a lot of consulting work in most of the local refineries in SE Louisiana. I can tell you that right now, the big project each one of them are studying are their safety relief systems. This work is one of the highest priorities they are all evaluating. It is a daunting task and will cost lots of money but is worth every dollar to save them from a catastrophic event, which could kill hundreds of people if it would happen at peak work hours.

Catastrophic refinery events are rare, but they can occur. All of these events require a root cause analysis. In most instances, it is determined that if certain measures were taken, the event could have been prevented; thus the stiff fines. Some times, it may come from poor record keeping, to poor maintenance procedures, or simply neglect and all of the above just to name a few.

For you people that honestly believe and are naive to think they would overlook safety in lieu of making the necessary modifications to not have to spend money and would rather be fined after such an event, you are clueless. Do anyone of you realize a refinery, or refineries could be shut down from production by OSHA and FINED, if they were found to have the information that showed they were aware of the issue and did nothing about it? Come on folks, use your brain.

I guess before you called me stupid you didn't read the report of findings.

 

[Taurus]

The company I work for does a lot of consulting work in most of the local refineries in SE Louisiana. I can tell you that right now, the big project each one of them are studying are their safety relief systems. This work is one of the highest priorities they are all evaluating. It is a daunting task and will cost lots of money but is worth every dollar to save them from a catastrophic event, which could kill hundreds of people if it would happen at peak work hours.

Catastrophic refinery events are rare, but they can occur. All of these events require a root cause analysis. In most instances, it is determined that if certain measures were taken, the event could have been prevented; thus the stiff fines. Some times, it may come from poor record keeping, to poor maintenance procedures, or simply neglect and all of the above just to name a few.

For you people that honestly believe and are naive to think they would overlook safety in lieu of making the necessary modifications to not have to spend money and would rather be fined after such an event, you are clueless. Do anyone of you realize a refinery, or refineries could be shut down from production by OSHA and FINED, if they were found to have the information that showed they were aware of the issue and did nothing about it? Come on folks, use your brain.

Which is precisely the situation here.

So what's your interpretation as to why BP didn't follow the agreement they signed? Are they just stupid?

Or maybe they just thought "Naah, they'll never get back around to checking. OSHA's totally understaffed, by the time they get back to us, we'll be refining quorgonium on Mars."

 

[Norwajun]

http://www.csb.gov/assets/document/CSBFinalReportBP.pdf

Read that, then comment. Honestly, until you have read the CSB, OSHA and Baker Panel Investigation Reports, don't assume. They knew the consequences of their actions/inactions and proceeded anyway. As for the Williams-Steiger OSH Act being overly wordy, how come many other companies in the same industry as BP have no problem complying? The company I work for is a prime example. There are only 8 Safety / PSM Coordinators (of which I am one) in the entire Western US, yet we manage to comply fully with not only the letter, but the intent of the PSM standard.

BP has 8 Safety Coordinators per square foot, it seems, and still can't get it right.[/QUOTE]

So they pay for 8 Safety Coordinators per square foot but decided to ignore all safety and compliance issues because they think OSHA will go away one day?

Exactly. Because paying 50k/yr or so for some uninformed schmuck to whom they give a title allows them to make grandiose claims about how much they do for safety. Yet they continue to utilize systems like atmospheric blowdown drums, technology that was supposed to be phased out in the 1950's. And when the feds come around they spend millions on legal fees to entangle the whole mess in court, or informal conference, or with the Occupational Safety and Health Review Commision so they can continue to cut corners and make TENS OF MILLIONS in the interim.

You do realize that the Texas City refinery averaged one worker death every 18 months for the 30 years prior to that incident, and that an internal study commisioned by BP management warned of a catastrophic event due to lax maintenance at the Texas City refinery mere months before the explosion? Yet they CHOSE to ignore this and concentrate on slips, trips and falls instead.

Read the Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board's investigation reports on Texas City and then come back and comment. BP spent years decapitalizing that refinery, all the while boasting of a "world class" safety program. And they are still doing it and thumbing their nose at government regulators.

 

[Norwajun]

OSHA sucks. I have my OSHA 30 certification, and that was the most boring 30 hours of my life. It has its purpose, but it just goes too far. Then the different job sites I'm on have requirements that go past the OSHA requirements. The place I've been working lately make me tie off if I go over four feet off the ground on a step ladder. It's really funny. I climb down off the ladder and pick stuff up on the floor while I'm still tied off. I had the safety guy get on to me for not wearing gloves while I was terminating very small wires. There is no way to do certain tasks with gloves on. The safety guy doesn't use tools of any kind and walks around wearing gloves. I asked him why and he said it's in case he falls down. It's all getting silly.

That's not OSHA regulations, that's some knucklehead trying to interpret the standard. A ladder is a flipping means of access. You are NOT REQUIRED to utilize fall protection on a ladder if it is less than 20 feet high. And then, you must either equip the ladder with a cage, or provide an equivalent means of protection. A flipping harness and 6 foot lanyard does not even provide adequate protection until you are AT LEAST 15 feet above the next lower level. You have six feet of lanyard, another 2 or so feet of material in the deceleration device, plus about 2 feet of stretch in the harness, plus the height of the worker. Therefore, utilizing a lanyard on a 4 foot ladder is dumb. Whomever made that rule should be fired.

If you do perform work off a ladder, then you have to treat it as a work platform, and provide an adequate means of fall protection. A lanyard is not recommended below 15 feet, as stated earlier. there are plenty of alternatives available, the person who made that rule is just plain uninformed.

Freaking companies hire these idiots, call them Safety Professionals, and coach them up on safety the way they want it and you end up with a mess. Drives me insane, and it is downright dangerous, to boot.