Its Not Reggie's... (1 Viewer)

[BoNcHiE]

All the Reggie supporters, bring it on. No, PT didn't light up the scoreboard today, but he wasn't given that opportunity. He was just asked to run out the clock. The second series he did just that even with 9 in the box. The big difference for those with open eyes was the heart and effort he showed EVERY TIME he was handed the ball.

It was actually the 3rd series he started. The 2nd he gained 1 yard, 4 yards, and no gain. We punted.

You don't get stats for "hitting the hole hard"...he averaged 2.5 ypc no matter how good he looked doing it.

 

[VDK]

An offensive line has to first and foremost do their job before any RB in the league can start to do theirs. Once they get the RB past the LOS its up to the RB to use his skills to get yards. I've always been one to give major credit to O-lines when a RB does well. I'll comment on a guy being great based on moves he uses once hes past the LOS but it all starts up front first. Thats why teams like Minny and Denver consistently have good running no matter whos in the backfield.

Name one running back in Denver's stable of backs over the years that dances and hesitates as much as RB. Those backs know/knew the holes to hit and hit them without hesitating or dancing. It's clearly obvious to those looking at things objectively, that Reggie has habits and maybe some limitations that reduce his effectiveness as a rb and this has nothing to do with the oline. Now my real problem is with Payton recognizing this and designing running plays that take advantage of the strengths of reggie and the oline.

 

[bradman1965]

All the Reggie supporters, bring it on.

The thing I want to know is how can you be a Saints fan and not be a Reggie supporter? I've got players who's play I haven't been happy with and I'm the first one right back up to the front to congratulate them when they do well. It sounds like you've got more of a problem with Reggie then his play.

 

[SaintBSN-RN]

How'd this become a Payton thread? Again, the coach plays who he feels gives us the best chance for success. You can disagree , but to use a facile argument like "can't even make a simple decison" makes your post a non starter.

The Coach is suppose to make decisions not on "How HE feels" but on how the players grade out during the game performance wise. Sean Payton has failed to start 2 players who have graded out higher and is easy to see by watching game film are performing at a higher level than the players in front of them. A "simple" decision is starting Jonathan Goodwin over Jeff Faine and Jason Craft over Jason David both which have graded out higher not to mention we are 3-0 and 4-0 without them. Coach Payton has a problem with having different standards for players he drafted or signed via free agency. You can ask Devery Henderson about that.. It only took Coach Payton two games to bench Devery Henderson for poor performance on the field. So far Jason David and Jeff Faine have lasted 8-9 games. Pathetic...Truly Pathetic

 

[bradman1965]

Pathetic...Truly Pathetic

great game today SaintBSN huh?

nevermind, if where you are at today is calling the coach pathetic then I got nothing.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

The thing I want to know is how can you be a Saints fan and not be a Reggie supporter? I've got players who's play I haven't been happy with and I'm the first one right back up to the front to congratulate them when they do well. It sounds like you've got more of a problem with Reggie then his play.

 

[VDK]

You don't get stats for "hitting the hole hard"...he averaged 2.5 ypc no matter how good he looked doing it.[/QUOTE
To be fair you can't really count his performance in the fourth when things were predictable and we were only trying to run the clock. Plus one game shouldn't be a judge one way or the other.

 

[BoNcHiE]

To be fair you can't really count his performance in the fourth when things were predictable and we were only trying to run the clock. Plus one game shouldn't be a judge one way or the other.

The only reason I count it is because I was told repeatedly that PT runs with power and can get the tough yards. I've been saying for months he is nothing more then a younger Stecker. Their running styles and speed are almost identical.

 

[CitySaint]

Now my real problem is with Payton recognizing this and designing running plays that take advantage of the strengths of reggie and the oline.

Thats the number 1 question. As of right now what can we do scheme wise to take maximum advantage of the line we have currently? We can worry about upgrades when the season is over.

 

[mylilbro#23]

You're right. It is hard to believe. That's because PT has NOT been given a real shot yet. Yes, he got 12 carries today, but most of those came with 4 minutes left in the game in a blowout when everyone in the stadium (all 14 people!) knew that Thomas was running the ball. Heck, Carolina had 9 in the box on 8 of PT's carries.

Reggie was hurt today, but his running style was still the same. He is tentative hitting the holes. I don't want to hear about NO holes. That's a crock. You're supposed to run the same whether there's a hole or gap or a crease or nothing. You're supposed to put your head down and drive your legs. I saw Stecker do that most of the time today. I saw PT do it on EVERY SINGLE carry. I saw Reggie do it 0 times today. Yes, that's right, zero. Sad. When a guy is making that much money and is expected to carry the team with the #1 tailback out and the team still in a playoff race (as if that should make a difference), and he still won't hit the line hard. THERE WAS AN OBVIOUS DIFFERENCE between the way Reggie hit the line and the way PT hit the line today.

I figured that Payton would NOT give PT a chance when the defense was still guessing. I'm glad he got in some, but Payton's statement about seeing a lot more from Stecker and Thomas seemed like lip service to me. I figured that it would be a LOT MORE STECKER and maybe a tiny bit of Thomas. Basically, I was right until, of course, he put Thomas in when everybody knew he was going to run. He had a rough first set of downs because on 9 in the box. The second set of downs he actually ripped off two 5-yd runs to pick up a first down even when the D was still keying the run.

PT hit the line hard EVERY time and kept his feet churning. The defense had to physically LIFT him off his feet to get him to stop running. What I didn't see was any of the stuff you see from Reggie: running out of bounds, diving to the turf before he takes a shot, tripping over his lineman, juking three times at the hole, and going down when the first guy hits him.

All the Reggie supporters, bring it on. No, PT didn't light up the scoreboard today, but he wasn't given that opportunity. He was just asked to run out the clock. The second series he did just that even with 9 in the box. The big difference for those with open eyes was the heart and effort he showed EVERY TIME he was handed the ball.

I just have to say that was very well said, and what do you mean when you say 9 in the box?

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

The only reason I count it is because I was told repeatedly that PT runs with power and can get the tough yards. I've been saying for months he is nothing more then a younger Stecker. Their running styles and speed are almost identical.

You are correct Bonchie!

We kept hearing that given the oppurtunity, Pierre would be able to push the pile when running the clock out and get his 4 YPC anyway. Now that we see that didn't happen, you see all of these "Pierre was running against 8-9 man fronts" posts. Well, these same biased fans didn't say that when Reggie had that same issue against Seattle and Atl.

The double standard is getting to hilarious levels!

 

[bradman1965]

Thats the number 1 question. As of right now what can we do scheme wise to take maximum advantage of the line we have currently? We can worry about upgrades when the season is over.

I'm with you on this one. Work with what we have this year and upgrade when we have the opportunity.

 

[StChadwick]

The line definitely could do better, but I still think Reggie's vision is questionable apart from that. When you are a superstar more will be expected. That is why for a while tv analysts would show plays where Reggie missed opened lanes, so part of it is the hype that he brings.

 

[meily]

Why is that kinda making it a Pierre vs Reggie? Reggie aint going nowhere..Pierre is not auditioning to take Reggies place, he auditioning to take Dueces and if he can't do it someone will be signed or drafted who Org. Thinks can take his job ( this is assuming Duece is done) I repeat REGGIE IS GOING NOWHERE!! These guys are auditioning to be Reggie's compliment in the run game, not his replacement.

 

[REALCHRISM]

Overachieving one year doesn't mean continued success as a unit the next. None of our RB's can get anything going behind this line. Contrast that with what the broncos are doing with their 4th RB or what Minny does when Peterson goes down and you see what we are missing not having a good offensive line.

Great first post Bonchie. I also agree here. I think Deuce's success last year had a lot to do with the fact that he had Reggie as a decoy, which would take away a defender and allow Deuce to get some solid runs. It's too bad that Reggie does not have a decoy or, even better, a great offensive line. The interesting thing is that with two moves, we can be much improved. Alan Faneca will be available as will Max Starks. It will be costly but it's to protect your two most prized possessions--Drew Brees and Reggie Bush.