It's not the defense fella's (2 Viewers)

[Random Fan]

Don't jump out and blame the defense. The defense is not the problem (though its obviously not the solution). Granted this isn't the Baltimore/Chicago defense that can actually go out and create points, however this defense is very capable of being average (and with a high scoring offense thats all you need to get by). I am not saying this defense is perfect, far from it, but its not the reason we are losing games.

Ask yourself: What is the same in every game we have lost (especially the Baltimore/Pittsburgh/Cinci games). Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.

The defense is not good enough to win games for us, but its also not so horrible it will blow games either. The offense has put this team in some really bad positions, allowing teams to tee off. Plain and simple, we don't turn the ball over we win. Put the 6-4 record on the offense and the turnovers.

Like I said, this defense isn't good enough to pick up the offenses slack, however without the turn overs and early leads this defense can be fairly effective (and with a good offense thats all you really need).

Well, I disagree about the Pittsburgh game, that would have been winnable if the defense wasn't so horrid. That leaves the Ravens and Bengals game. Yes, the commonality is turnovers but, more specifically, Drew Brees. Drew Brees had relatively poor games against those two teams.

Is there any way the Saints can improve their quarterback position? No. You aren't going to find a better quarterback than Brees to man the helm of this team over the next 3-5 seasons. Can the Saints improve their defense? You bet your butt.

That's why I talk about defense. Identifying the "turnovers" aka Drew Brees' six interceptions in the Ravens and Bengals games is a non starter. Ok, so Drew Brees has two bad games... and? Nothing the team can do about that.

Defense is not the problem, turnovers are.

Just because the offense has managed to bail out the defense more often than not doesn't mean the defense isn't a problem. Our defense is a problem. It might not have been the predominant problem in two or three of our losses this season but that doesn't mean it's not a significant problem.

This is the same debate people had during the 2002 collapse. People wanted to blame Aaron Brooks who actually had a pretty decent season. That year, he wasn't the problem, it was a defense that ranked in the bottom five of the NFL.

 

[Torgo]

Don't jump out and blame the defense. The defense is not the problem (though its obviously not the solution). Granted this isn't the Baltimore/Chicago defense that can actually go out and create points, however this defense is very capable of being average (and with a high scoring offense thats all you need to get by). I am not saying this defense is perfect, far from it, but its not the reason we are losing games.

Ask yourself: What is the same in every game we have lost (especially the Baltimore/Pittsburgh/Cinci games). Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers.

The defense is not good enough to win games for us, but its also not so horrible it will blow games either. The offense has put this team in some really bad positions, allowing teams to tee off. Plain and simple, we don't turn the ball over we win. Put the 6-4 record on the offense and the turnovers.

Like I said, this defense isn't good enough to pick up the offenses slack, however without the turn overs and early leads this defense can be fairly effective (and with a good offense thats all you really need).

I totally agree. It's what I've been saying all day. Some people would rather just look at the stats and say it's the defense's fault. If we don't turn the ball over, we can win games with this defense. Period.

 

[Random Fan]

If we don't turn the ball over, we can win games with this defense. Period.

It's pretty telling that from 1999-2001 when the Rams had the best offense in the league the two times they made the Super Bowl their defense also ranked among the best. The year they sputtered and lost to the Saints in the wildcard game their defense was ranked among the worst. It was subsequently awful the next few years after their last Super Bowl appearance against the Patriots and they never advanced past the first round since.

I got bored tracing it back all the way to the 1996 season: with only one exception (maybe two I'm flipping back and forth) the Super Bowl winners had strong (top 10) defenses. I keep alt tabbing and going back to this post... you can probably go back forever and see that's the case... made it all the way to the '85 Bears. Figure I'll stop there because I doubt I'd be surprised if I went back another twenty years.

Bottom line is clearly: teams with mediocre/crappy defenses don't win championships despite the quality of their offense.

 

[robsmith32]

Look at ALL the big plays this year.. look when they occurred...
DEFENSe played really well all year except late in the 4th quarter after they are worn out for being put on the field so quickly with a TURNOVER!

At first i questioned the heart of the team, but this isn't from LACK of heart it's from giving the other team too much love handing them the gift of the pigskin.
As far as football, they need to turn into the GRINCH!

 

[Father Markus]

I agree 99% with you. There has been one other big factor in three of the four losses and that is BIG fourth quarter plays given up by the defense.

Carolina scored 14 in the 4th
Pittsburgh scored 14 in the 4th
Cincinnati scored 14 in the 4th (on the defense)

Agreed s... Let's not forget what Philadelphia did to us in the 4th of that game too (just happened to have the miracle drive...)

The BIG PLAY defense has got to get back to basics (or something).... And yes, I'm blaming Thomas for most of the big-plays.. I'm just not sure whether to blame Thomas solo (if Palmer scrambles, you stick to Johnson like GLUE!!!), or blame the defensive playcalling (Where is the safety help???)

 

[Random Fan]

Thought I'd tack this on after someone made an excellent point on another thread. The turnover differential goes both ways:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-TURNOVERS/2006/regular?sort_col_1=9&_3:col_1=4&_3:col_2=3

Going into today's game the Saints had only 4 interceptions which ranked 2nd lowest in the NFL. They were 20th in fumble recoveries for a combined 29th overall in takeaways. They only had one takeaway today I believe so that doesn't shoot them much further up the chain.

 

[Torgo]

It's pretty telling that from 1999-2001 when the Rams had the best offense in the league the two times they made the Super Bowl their defense also ranked among the best. The year they sputtered and lost to the Saints in the wildcard game their defense was ranked among the worst. It was subsequently awful the next few years after their last Super Bowl appearance against the Patriots and they never advanced past the first round since.

Yep, that Rams offense was ranked pretty high. You know what else they were good at the year we beat them in the playoffs? TURNING THE BALL OVER.

 

[Random Fan]

Yep, that Rams offense was ranked pretty high. You know what else they were good at the year we beat them in the playoffs? TURNING THE BALL OVER.

That still doesn't account for 20+ years (most likely 40+) of the eventual champion having a strong defense. I really doubt it's merely a massive coincidence. And as I've said all along... so the turnovers are hurting us. Are we going to bench Brees? Nope. Are we going to get another quarterback in the offseason? Nope. Doesn't leave very many options.

Funnier still, if you look at the number of Brees' interceptions and the fumbles by Bush, McAllister, Copper, etc. They aren't abnormally high by NFL standards. Brees is on pace for ~13-15 interceptions which is generally acceptable for most NFL quarterbacks. Of course, as pointed out, the Saints defense is horrid at creating turnovers of their own so there's little counterbalance to even what would otherwise be a workable amount of offensive turnovers.

 

[milo.d.venus]

Yep, that Rams offense was ranked pretty high. You know what else they were good at the year we beat them in the playoffs? TURNING THE BALL OVER.

Hakim Drops the Ball!!! ring any bells?

 

[Torgo]

That still doesn't account for 20+ years (most likely 40+) of the eventual champion having a strong defense. I really doubt it's merely a massive coincidence. And as I've said all along... so the turnovers are hurting us. Are we going to bench Brees? Nope. Are we going to get another quarterback in the offseason? Nope. Doesn't leave very many options.

And those teams that have the good defenses usually don't have offenses that turn over the ball at a high rate. I doubt that's a massive coincidence either. You can't possibly believe those turnovers don't effect the defense. Teams that turn the ball over don't win championships no matter how good the defense is. Go back and track that if you want since you got bored tracking just offense and defense rankings .

Look, no one is saying bench Brees. We're just saying that the offense needs to play better. Right now, the defense is good enough to win games and go to the playoffs if we hold on to the ball. I have no delusions about this team having a championship-caliber defense or offense this year, but minus the turnovers, we are a playoff-caliber TEAM. And who knows what can happen if we can get into the playoffs...

 

[Random Fan]

And those teams that have the good defenses usually don't have offenses that turn over the ball at a high rate. I doubt that's a massive coincidence either. You can't possibly believe those turnovers don't effect the defense. Teams that turn the ball over don't win championships no matter how good the defense is. Go back and track that if you want since you got bored tracking just offense and defense rankings .

The reality is, the Saints don't turn the ball over at that high of a rate. They just don't. Brees has 10 interceptions through 10 games (and 1 lost fumble). Bush has 2 fumbles lost. McAllister has 1 fumble lost. Copper has 2.

Correct me if I'm wrong but -- with the exception of Copper and his limited play time -- those simply do not strike me as being a high amount of turnovers through ten NFL games. Now, the fact that they come in clumps magnifies the effect they have but looking at the the season overall, there is nothing wrong with the offense. The turnover differential is so crummy because the defense doesn't cause any of their own.

At a certain point it is unrealistic to want or hope the offense to play better.

 

[milo.d.venus]

>600 yards and 16 points is a problem. Against a defense that gave up 42 points in a half the week before is a problem. Red zone efficiency today and all season is a problem. 2 ints in the endzone plus a 6 pack int is a problem. For all the yards this offense has generated, this team should have put up more than 34 points in a game this season.

This needs to get sorted out while there is still time, which means soon.

 

[MamaRoux]

>600 yards and 16 points is a problem. Against a defense that gave up 42 points in a half the week before is a problem. Red zone efficiency today and all season is a problem. 2 ints in the endzone plus a 6 pack int is a problem. For all the yards this offense has generated, this team should have put up more than 34 points in a game this season.

This needs to get sorted out while there is still time, which means soon.

+1

Ditto From The Doc Daddyeaux!