I've never said it before, but I think it's time... (1 Viewer)

[DavidM]

And yet...

McMahon.

Namedropping unpopular coaches doesn't debunk what I posted.

I'm not defending McMahon, or encouraging other people to believe he is or isn't a good coach. I'm asking if people really think that Payton's desire to win is willingly nullified because he'd rather have his "buddies" around, or if it isn't likely that some of these coaches stick around on some other basis?

Should we believe, then, that Payton personally disliked every other coach he's parted with in his tenure with the Saints?

 

[hankster2]

This is not a fire Payton thread for starters (reading is key). Nor is it a thread to bash him like the other one.

So yes, I felt it was significantly different as to warrant it's own thread. Nothing was going to get logically discussed in that other thread if I put this on page 12 of it after a dozen pages of people going at each other over how crappy Payton supposedly is.

So you want Payton as the head coach next year... or not?

You're wrestling with semantics. The same concepts of "wait till next year" and "deal him to other teams" have been presented in the other "fire Payton threads" to exhaustion.

But by all means, start a new thread. Your unique take deserves it's own spotlight.

Sorry, Bonchie. I've always liked your input and posts, but all the negativity is frustrating. 3 separate threads on replacing the head coach after a loss that was unavoidable considering our injury situation just makes things more frustrating.

 

[blackadder]

Namedropping unpopular coaches doesn't debunk what I posted.

I'm not defending McMahon, or encouraging other people to believe he is or isn't a good coach. I'm asking if people really think that Payton's desire to win is willingly nullified because he'd rather have his "buddies" around, or if it isn't likely that some of these coaches stick around on some other basis?

Should we believe, then, that Payton personally disliked every other coach he's parted with in his tenure with the Saints?

I don't know what the reasons are. I just know the results do not support his continued employment over the years and all one has to go on are prior personal connections.

We are perennially underperforming on ST and never get lift other than from Morestead. Quite the opposite we have gaffes that contribute to losses. If you are reletlessly looking to improve we passed the point where a new direction should have been explored.

That is all I know. To me it is just as likely that McMahon stays because he follows Payton's instructions to the letter.

 

[Eman5805]

McMahon has to go on principle, at this point.

It just is too much to bear.

 

[BoNcHiE]

So you want Payton as the head coach next year... or not?

You're wrestling with semantics. The same concepts of "wait till next year" and "deal him to other teams" have been presented in the other "fire Payton threads" to exhaustion.

But by all means, start a new thread. Your unique take deserves it's own spotlight.

Sorry, Bonchie. I've always liked your input and posts, but all the negativity is frustrating. 3 separate threads on replacing the head coach after a loss that was unavoidable considering our injury situation just makes things more frustrating.

Frankly, if you don't like the thread, go somewhere else. This year's been bad enough.

I've posted enough on here that if I want to present a well laid out and non-bashing opinion on our future in it's own thread instead of dumping into a ****-storm on that other thread, then I'm gonna do it. No puppies were hurt in the process.

 

[blackadder]

McMahon has to go on principle, at this point.

It just is too much to bear.

Purely results based...on the principle that his units dwell in the bottom third of the league and technically he has presided over a comical revolving door of kickers, although I know he's not making the final decisions there...but would be interesting to know what McMahon's input was on Hopkins vs Hocker.

 

[bobad]

Yet, something else is missing that we haven't had in a long time. A fire and intensity.

I remember the swagger this team used to have. I'm wondering if Payton now suppresses that too much, I really don't know. All I know is, it's gone.

Players should be allowed to tell the competition "I'm coming for you, and I'm going to beat you". When they make a play, they should be allowed to strut a little, and tell the opponents "See, I told you... and I'm going to do it to you again!". I think it helps players to make threats, and play like mad dogs to carry them out. They need to feed off the fans, feed off each other, and feed off their own success.

If Payton is quelling this valuable tool, it's a mistake.

 

[Chris]

No puppies were hurt in the process.

No but I think you hurt someone's feelings, and that may be worse than hurting a puppy nowadays.

 

[El Caliente]

It is time.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZMRDC4UDsnU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It was probably time last season, but I completely understand where Bonchie is on this move. Sean wouldn't be the first coach to win a Super Bowl and find himself coaching a different team latter. This is just the nature of the beast.

Isn't it called the 7 year itch? So having had Sean as long as we did really is miraculous.

 

[DavidM]

I don't know what the reasons are. I just know the results do not support his continued employment over the years and all one has to go on are prior personal connections.

We are perennially underperforming on ST and never get lift other than from Morestead. Quite the opposite we have gaffes that contribute to losses. If you are reletlessly looking to improve we passed the point where a new direction should have been explored.

That is all I know. To me it is just as likely that McMahon stays because he follows Payton's instructions to the letter.

Sure. I have my doubts, too.

I was directly challenging a specific reasoning.

Payton might be closer to some coaches than others, that's normal in life, but I'm going to assume he really believes that the coaches he's retained are competent in their positions (whether or not he should believe that), regardless of what anybody else thinks. Otherwise we have to believe that Payton is perfectly content with losing as long as he has his pals around him.

"His buddies" is one of those throw-away lines borne of frustration.

 

[LoE]

The problem isn't Sean Payton.

1) history of poor draft decisions, especially trade-up's
2) history of big contracts on wrong players

Sean isn't responsible for either of those. You know who is.

 

[new city champ]

I said elsewhere that three straight seasons out of the playoffs is sufficient grounds to make a change. The case is strengthened by the fact that we have fielded the worst defense in the league for three years running. When a glaring problem like that persists through multiple seasons, there has to be some accountability above the coordinator level.

We could rally and make a run at the post-season, though that would be historically unusual after an 0-3 start, even in a bad division, especially given the fact that this team hasn't won a game of any kind since January. Payton has credit in the bank, but he's been drawing it down for a couple of years now. If we miss the playoffs again this season due to yet another slow start, the organization would be justified in letting him go. But, barring a complete meltdown, I'd guess he gets another season, while being on a very short leash.

 

[Da Living Saint]

Frankly, if you don't like the thread, go somewhere else. This year's been bad enough.

I've posted enough on here that if I want to present a well laid out and non-bashing opinion on our future in it's own thread instead of dumping into a ****-storm on that other thread, then I'm gonna do it. No puppies were hurt in the process.

Way too many people playing wordsmith and gotcha games on this board recently.

 

[Chris]

I remember the swagger this team used to have. I'm wondering if Payton now suppresses that too much, I really don't know. All I know is, it's gone.

Players should be allowed to tell the competition "I'm coming for you, and I'm going to beat you". When they make a play, they should be allowed to strut a little, and tell the opponents "See, I told you... and I'm going to do it to you again!". I think it helps players to make threats, and play like mad dogs to carry them out. They need to feed off the fans, feed off each other, and feed off their own success.

If Payton is quelling this valuable tool, it's a mistake.

It's not just that. I was incredibly frustrated watching Payton methodically walk up and down the sidelines as the defense was being utterly decimated. I wanted so bad for him to get animated and get in people's faces, but there was none of that. He just looked like he had checked out.

 

[El Caliente]

The problem isn't Sean Payton.

1) history of poor draft decisions, especially trade-up's
2) history of big contracts on wrong players

Sean isn't responsible for either of those. You know who is.

Jeff in accounting.

Look at BP, VW, etc. Its always the low level analyst or accountant who takes the fall.