Jindal to ask to merge SUNO, UNO (1 Viewer)

[livefromDC]

I never went to UNO nor did I take a class at SUNO. But I did go to Morehouse College for a few years and took several classes at Clark Atlanta, Morris Brown and Spellman before ultimately getting my degree as well as most of my education at Georgia State University.

To the students at Suno, this will be a good thing in the long run if you really want to get the best education possible. From my experience the HBCU thing is overrated. Extremely fun, but overrated....and over priced.

Over priced compared to what? That could be said of all private colleges not just HBCUs. I don't know what you consider overpriced as private HBCUs represent some of the best bargains in college. Don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't graduate from an expensive school. As far as the "HBCU thing" being extremely fun. Slimm, that's not an HBCU thing, Again that's a college thing. College is extremely fun. If you're calling it overrated, you didn't have enough fun!

Are you talking purpose? You have no further than to look at your very own 17th ward (I think, that's where it is) Xavier has churned out the most Black medical students in the country including school with their own medical schools. HBCUs just like other colleges serve an important purpose if they are doing what they are supposed to. I think both SUNO and UNO could benefit from being combined, they're struggling and no longer fulfilling their mission.

 

[BBSaint]

Current stats from an article on this:

Current 6 Year Grad rate
UNO 21%
SUNO 5%

Enrollment Change since 05
UNO (-32%) 17,000 students to 11,700
SUNO (-14%) 3,500 students to 3,100

http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2011/01/uno-suno_merger_suggestion_is.html

 

[Saint Sarah]

So we should abolish all collegiate athletic programs with a poor graduation rate? That's a ridiculous premise. First off, the NCAA monitors and governs academic performance of its student athletes. You have a bad APR, you get penalties and can eventually be banned. If sports programs have sub-20% grad rate or athletes arent completing courses, they are not active for a long time. There are far more stringent rules on student athletes completing coursework than there are for non athletes.

Athletics are a extremely small fraction of an entire university. When you are talking about the entire school being sub-20%, then "not spectacular" is kind of glossing over the issue. You are arguing that athletics from all schools or most schools should close ahead of the worst performing school in the state. Some athletics should get cut, but not because they have poor graduation rates. The role of athletics in a university gets a bit diminished at times. Some schools cannot support them, but this state cannot support every extremely poor performing school either.

And honestly, your point about Tulane and Loyola is a little ridiculous. Tax payers dont bear the burden of keeping those establishments afloat, so they are out of the question. This isnt solely about closing schools that are close to each other, but rather trimming the ridiculous number of universities that this state clearly cannot support. Low performers are always the first to get the boot. At least it would be a merge and not an outright closure. Not sure how much different that would be though.

The sad thing is that low performers are the people that need the state's assistance. You want to know one of the largest contributors to SUNO's low graduation rate? The utter failure of New Orleans Public Schools. SUNO is the only place many of those students have the opportunity to go to. You want to take that opportunity away and you're likely going to pull the plug on any remaining chance many of those kids had. Sure the graduation rate might not be stellar, but SUNO is giving these people a chance.

And don't even try to tell me that they'll have the same chance at UNO. That isn't even close to being true.

 

[primadox]

The sad thing is that low performers are the people that need the state's assistance. You want to know one of the largest contributors to SUNO's low graduation rate? The utter failure of New Orleans Public Schools. SUNO is the only place many of those students have the opportunity to go to. You want to take that opportunity away and you're likely going to pull the plug on any remaining chance many of those kids had. Sure the graduation rate might not be stellar, but SUNO is giving these people a chance.

And don't even try to tell me that they'll have the same chance at UNO. That isn't even close to being true.

Isn't a two year college another "chance" these kids might have? Frankly, with 95% of them not graduating from SUNO anyway, perhaps the completion of a two year associates degree at a local community college is a better "chance" anyway. At least they'd have a degree with a marketable skill, or they can transfer to a 4 year university at that point. That is what MANY kids here in TX are doing - starting at a local college due to cost constraints, then transferring to A&M/UT/UH etc. I know that options are limited for some of the kids you're referring to, but I find it hard to believe that SUNO is their only option. I think that for those with academic and/or budgetary issues, the benefit of starting at a community college cannot be stressed enough.

 

[SaintJ]

There has to be a way to run the whole thing better without the cost of two school administrations.

To Saint Sarah's point, you'd like to hope/think that the cost savings would help provide additional opportunities for those who need it the most -- NO public school veterans/graduates who sincerely want a second chance to better their lives but can't afford tuition.

 

[mb504]

SUNO has no admissions standards (no minimum test score, no minimum high school GPA) required of students aside from a high school degree, most of which, as Saint Sarah has pointed out, were received from poorly performing New Orleans high schools. Expecting more than 10-15% of these kids to graduate from a four year university is insane. SUNO in its current form does not meet the needs of its students. The current model is broken.

I don't want to see higher education budgets cut any more, and I don't have any secret racist or :artmad: reasons for wanting SUNO to close. I wish the state would use its resources to develop a true junior college system without trying to shoehorn high school students into mediocre four year universities with low standards needed in order to allow everyone who was poorly educated in some Louisiana high school a chance to pass any classes. Hell, turn the campus over to Delgado.


I also think the state would do well to concentrate on developing LSU into a true flagship university with high standards and a focus on research that could compare favorably with other premier state universities in places like Texas, Michigan, North Carolina, Virginia, etc., maybe gear one or two other four year universities toward the students who fall into the middle range, and turn the rest into two year programs or trade schools. Instead we have three systems of mediocre universities and a "flagship" ranked academically behind Auburn and Alabama and the like, and I don't see how that's really helping any students at all.

 

[BBSaint]

Poorer students making up your student body is not an excuse for having a 5% 6 yr grad rate, IMO. There is a large amount of students working full time that can graduate in 6 years, at the very least, a whole lot more than 5%.

If its because those students arent as smart, which I am not claiming, than that's still not a valid reason to keep a 4 yr public university open. The focus should then be on improving the local school system. Would converting it to a 2 year institution be any better?

This state has way too many 4 year public institutions open right now. Simple facts. Louisiana has about half as many 4 year public coll/univ as Texas. Texas has 6x the population. By area, Texas has over 5x the area (square miles) of Louisiana. All assuming I googled correctly :/

 

[Saint Sarah]

Poorer students making up your student body is not an excuse for having a 5% 6 yr grad rate, IMO. There is a large amount of students working full time that can graduate in 6 years, at the very least, a whole lot more than 5%.

If its because those students arent as smart, which I am not claiming, than that's still not a valid reason to keep a 4 yr public university open. The focus should then be on improving the local school system. Would converting it to a 2 year institution be any better?

This state has way too many 4 year public institutions open right now. Simple facts. Louisiana has about half as many 4 year public coll/univ as Texas. Texas has 6x the population. By area, Texas has over 5x the area (square miles) of Louisiana. All assuming I googled correctly :/

I think that converting it to a 2 year institution would be a huge help with a feeder system into UNO. That would likely yield better results than shutting it down/merging with UNO straight up.

 

[BBSaint]

I also think the state would do well to concentrate on developing LSU into a true flagship university with high standards and a focus on research that could compare favorably with other premier state universities in places like Texas, Michigan, North Carolina, Virginia, etc., maybe gear one or two other four year universities toward the students who fall into the middle range, and turn the rest into two year programs or trade schools. Instead we have three systems of mediocre universities and a "flagship" ranked academically behind Auburn and Alabama and the like, and I don't see how that's really helping any students at all.

There's valid points on both sides. LSU has far worse grad rates than any of those examples. In TX you have multiple flagships. Virginia has UVA and VT as very large high research activity schools.

The flagship thing can work, but you dont need to demote some of the bigger other schools as they all serve some purpose now. UL Lafayette has the 2nd biggest research budget and also endowment and has 5 research parks. It was, until a few months ago, one of 3 public schools in LA listed as a Carnegie Research Univ with High research activity along with LSU and UNO (though they have obvious shortcomings with grad rate.) La Tech has very well renowned engineering programs. ULM has the states only pharmacy program. SLU is one of the fastest growing schools in the state.

Whether all this is done under a new single body or is kept separate is up for debate. My only concern is that other state schools suffer to elevate LSU. I think all of the major players can prosper if everything is done with care.

 

[Danchrism]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Louisiana

 

[BBSaint]

I think that converting it to a 2 year institution would be a huge help with a feeder system into UNO. That would likely yield better results than shutting it down/merging with UNO straight up.

I think that can be true as well. What the specifics of this new plan are have not really come out as far as keeping campuses, etc.

We'll see. Either way, something has to be done WRT higher learning in the state.

 

[slimm_17th]

Over priced compared to what? That could be said of all private colleges not just HBCUs. I don't know what you consider overpriced as private HBCUs represent some of the best bargains in college. Don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't graduate from an expensive school. As far as the "HBCU thing" being extremely fun. Slimm, that's not an HBCU thing, Again that's a college thing. College is extremely fun. If you're calling it overrated, you didn't have enough fun!

Are you talking purpose? You have no further than to look at your very own 17th ward (I think, that's where it is) Xavier has churned out the most Black medical students in the country including school with their own medical schools. HBCUs just like other colleges serve an important purpose if they are doing what they are supposed to. I think both SUNO and UNO could benefit from being combined, they're struggling and no longer fulfilling their mission.

I should have been more specific, overpriced compared to going to a state school. Actually I don't know how much tuition differs across the board (private, state hbcu ect), but what I do know is paying around 20 thousand per year compared to 3 thousand was a big difference in my case. So basically I'm saying that I got a lot more (and better) education for a fraction of the price. And yes, I agree that college is fun period, but nothing compares to the AUC. The best two years of my life. Going to Ga State was fun also, but nothing like the black college experience.

And again, I'm just talking about MY experience. I have some life long friends that I met in the AUC who say the same things that I do, but I also have some who got a their degrees and are very successful in their careers. I'm not just talking about AUC schools either, I'm talking about friends who went to Howard, Dillard, Xavier and other places also. I'm not doubting that they can provide a good, quality education and produce outstanding professionals. I wanted to go to Xavier, but since it was literally walking distance from home, it was just too close. It wouldn't have been the 'real' college experience to me.

I don't now what the tuition structure is like at UNO or SUNO, is there a big difference? Never been to either school but I can almost grantee that the facilities at UNO are better, so if that's true, a merger would benefit SUNO students even more. Is either school known nationally for anything? If so there's another benefit.

 

[JimEverett]

SUNO has no admissions standards (no minimum test score, no minimum high school GPA) required of students aside from a high school degree, most of which, as Saint Sarah has pointed out, were received from poorly performing New Orleans high schools. Expecting more than 10-15% of these kids to graduate from a four year university is insane. SUNO in its current form does not meet the needs of its students. The current model is broken.

I don't want to see higher education budgets cut any more, and I don't have any secret racist or :artmad: reasons for wanting SUNO to close. I wish the state would use its resources to develop a true junior college system without trying to shoehorn high school students into mediocre four year universities with low standards needed in order to allow everyone who was poorly educated in some Louisiana high school a chance to pass any classes. Hell, turn the campus over to Delgado.


I also think the state would do well to concentrate on developing LSU into a true flagship university with high standards and a focus on research that could compare favorably with other premier state universities in places like Texas, Michigan, North Carolina, Virginia, etc., maybe gear one or two other four year universities toward the students who fall into the middle range, and turn the rest into two year programs or trade schools. Instead we have three systems of mediocre universities and a "flagship" ranked academically behind Auburn and Alabama and the like, and I don't see how that's really helping any students at all.

I agree. And really all states should try to emulate the North Carolina model. Louisiana actually has the advantage of having LSU, UNO, and Tulane so close - similar to the Research Triangle. The problem is that such a model requires a tremendous amount of cooperation from state government, local governments, the public university systems, the private univeristy system, and businesses. Cooperation like that is hard to come by anywhere but especially so in conservative areas - which is what makes N.C. so remarkable.

In places where you see that type of cooperation you see pretty positive things = ee the S.F. bay area, Boston, metro D.C., the Research Triangle, even Atlanta to some extent.
Texas has done it as well, although I think its somewhat different there, but hte results are similar.

 

[rechargeable]

The SUNO graduation rate is for students that start there as freshman and finish there as seniors, within a 6 year period if I'm correct. It is probably more a reflection that students are more apt to start at SUNO then transfer to another school, or a heavy number of students that enter in year 2 or 3 (probably from a C.C., or other school). I know there were many at UNO from SUNO when I attended.

There is more to that graduation rate than just thinking its a bunch of dummies looking for aid money. Not to mention SUNO has always been treated like a step-child when it comes to state money.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

A few things.

First, surely the effect and probably the purpose of this proposal is to eliminate SUNO, the utility of which is certainly exceeded by its cost. The beneficiary will be Delgado, not UNO.

Second, there is little reason to justify the existence of Southern and Grambling except history, which is a substantial reason. Southern and Grambling were created because the other universities, which then all white, refused to accept blacks. At the very least, there needs to be greater coordination between those schools and the other colleges in the state. To me, it makes no sense to have two different university systems based on race, though it may make some sense to have two colleges that are historically black, that are today entirely black for all purposes, and that have as their mission educating black young people. But the mission needs to be refined, and the schools--especially Southern--can no longer justify their existence because they provide power and influence to the state's black elite who run those systems.

Third, we need one university system in the state running all of higher education in Louisiana. See point number two. The curent structure provides insufficient coordination, duplication, and far too many plush administrative posiitons for people to be appointed to.

Fourth, a mistake--probably intentional--was not integrating in some way in the beginning LSU's New Orleans campus with the LSU Medical and Dental schools. By not doing so, LSU lessened the appeal of the LSU brand for the new school and its chances for growth. In so many ways for all concerned, Alabama-Birmingham is the model that should have been used.

Fifth, is this proposal the beginning of the slippery slope? Is SUNO simply low lying fruit and with SUNO the urge to consolidate and eliminate will end? Or is this the beginning of a serious effort to reform the structure of higher education in the state?

Sixth, a reason--one--that college graduation rates are so low is that our state colleges place relatively little emphasis on getting its students to graduate four years: They do an extraordinarily poor job of providing academic counseling to their students--and even providing the requisite classes required for graduation. Some students don't graduate on time because they cannot get in courses required for graduation. This does not happen in the private sector where parents pay much in tuition and for that reason expect their kids to finish in four years.

You get what you pay for. We charge relatively low tuition because the legislature, which refuses to adequately fund the schools, refuses to allow the schools to charge more. Our higher education model is built on the concept of access, which built a number of schools around the state, which places emphasis on low tuition costs and which created a lot of administrative jobs for politicians to fill.