Jindal to ask to merge SUNO, UNO (1 Viewer)

[bozoka45]

UNO's entrance standards changed that school year. They didn't relax those standards to re-populate at a time when the school urgently needed warm bodies sitting in classrooms. It's not like the student-teacher ratio has greatly improved; they've cut programs and the ratio is almost the same as it was pre-Katrina... before the higher entrance standards took effect. They lost students without the most tangible effect of losing students, and in the process managed to lose means by which they could gain more students.

If programs have been cut and the student-teacher ratio has remained the same, wouldn't it be expected that the budget would drop? So would the merger help or hurt student/teacher ratio? Also, would it help with opening up more classes to students who need them to graduate (a problem someone else mentioned earlier)?

The SUNO graduation rate is for students that start there as freshman and finish there as seniors, within a 6 year period if I'm correct. It is probably more a reflection that students are more apt to start at SUNO then transfer to another school, or a heavy number of students that enter in year 2 or 3 (probably from a C.C., or other school). I know there were many at UNO from SUNO when I attended.

There is more to that graduation rate than just thinking its a bunch of dummies looking for aid money. Not to mention SUNO has always been treated like a step-child when it comes to state money.

I've kinda thought the same thing. I'd like to see the transfer rate compared to UNO, and the graduation rate of those students who do transfer.

 

[GameBreaker]

All evidence I've seen shows a double digit graduation rate. Still not spectacular, but better than 5%.

Other studies have shown that on average Div I basketball players graduate at a clip of 20% less than full-tim male students. I guess it is time to cut basketball.

Many football programs at big schools also feature a huge disparity between their graduation rates and the student body graduation rates. Time to axe football too.

So if only 5% of LSU players graduate we should cut the football program?

I'm sure they make money for the school.

 

[You]

A few things.

First, surely the effect and probably the purpose of this proposal is to eliminate SUNO, the utility of which is certainly exceeded by its cost. The beneficiary will be Delgado, not UNO.

Second, there is little reason to justify the existence of Southern and Grambling except history, which is a substantial reason. Southern and Grambling were created because the other universities, which then all white, refused to accept blacks. At the very least, there needs to be greater coordination between those schools and the other colleges in the state. To me, it makes no sense to have two different university systems based on race, though it may make some sense to have two colleges that are historically black, that are today entirely black for all purposes, and that have as their mission educating black young people. But the mission needs to be refined, and the schools--especially Southern--can no longer justify their existence because they provide power and influence to the state's black elite who run those systems.

Third, we need one university system in the state running all of higher education in Louisiana. See point number two. The curent structure provides insufficient coordination, duplication, and far too many plush administrative posiitons for people to be appointed to.

Fourth, a mistake--probably intentional--was not integrating in some way in the beginning LSU's New Orleans campus with the LSU Medical and Dental schools. By not doing so, LSU lessened the appeal of the LSU brand for the new school and its chances for growth. In so many ways for all concerned, Alabama-Birmingham is the model that should have been used.

Fifth, is this proposal the beginning of the slippery slope? Is SUNO simply low lying fruit and with SUNO the urge to consolidate and eliminate will end? Or is this the beginning of a serious effort to reform the structure of higher education in the state?

Sixth, a reason--one--that college graduation rates are so low is that our state colleges place relatively little emphasis on getting its students to graduate four years: They do an extraordinarily poor job of providing academic counseling to their students--and even providing the requisite classes required for graduation. Some students don't graduate on time because they cannot get in courses required for graduation. This does not happen in the private sector where parents pay much in tuition and for that reason expect their kids to finish in four years.

You get what you pay for. We charge relatively low tuition because the legislature, which refuses to adequately fund the schools, refuses to allow the schools to charge more. Our higher education model is built on the concept of access, which built a number of schools around the state, which places emphasis on low tuition costs and which created a lot of administrative jobs for politicians to fill.

Very good post RJ.

 

[GameBreaker]

The sad thing is that low performers are the people that need the state's assistance. You want to know one of the largest contributors to SUNO's low graduation rate? The utter failure of New Orleans Public Schools. SUNO is the only place many of those students have the opportunity to go to. You want to take that opportunity away and you're likely going to pull the plug on any remaining chance many of those kids had. Sure the graduation rate might not be stellar, but SUNO is giving these people a chance.

And don't even try to tell me that they'll have the same chance at UNO. That isn't even close to being true.

Not true.

If they want to go to college then they can go to a community college and get their basic core classes and maintain a good GPA and then transfer to the new UNO-SUNO.

Also, there are other opportunites other than 4-year degree institutions. A friend of mine decided it wasn't for him and went to a tech school and now makes a good living in NOLA.

 

[livefromDC]

Second, there is little reason to justify the existence of Southern and Grambling except history, which is a substantial reason. Southern and Grambling were created because the other universities, which then all white, refused to accept blacks. At the very least, there needs to be greater coordination between those schools and the other colleges in the state. To me, it makes no sense to have two different university systems based on race, though it may make some sense to have two colleges that are historically black, that are today entirely black for all purposes, and that have as their mission educating black young people. But the mission needs to be refined, and the schools--especially Southern--can no longer justify their existence because they provide power and influence to the state's black elite who run those systems.

What justification do you need? There are several predominantly white universities with the similar enrollment numbers and ranking according to the U.S News and World Report which is the most recognized authority of school rankings. Grambling has the same ranking and a higher enrollment than LSU-Shreveport. Southern is comparable to Nicholls, McNeese, and Northwestern. And of all the schools names, Southern and Grambling are the most renowned across the country and world for that matter.

I'll say it again. Some of you are hanging on the fact that these schools are predominantly black as if to say they no longer serve a need anymore when the truth of the matter is that the schools are historically black not all black. The difference being that while HBCUs or any other university do not limit enrollment based off race or ethnicity, schools that are historically black continue to service the education needs of students in this country just like schools of comparable size and funding do. So please forego telling me how there isn't a need for Grambling or Southern while simultaneously ignoring comparable schools in the state.

Yes, UNO and SUNO presents a situation that should be looked at more closely. Two nearby schools that are BOTH struggling which perhaps would be of greater benefit to their students if they combined. Don't extrapolate from this situation to reconsider the need for the other public HBCUs.

 

[LKN H20Girl]

How long before Jesse Jackson and his crew jump on this to make it a racial issue?

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Merging UNO and SUNO does little to help UNO.

As a practical matter, the state cannot simply close down large universities given the physical plant investment at those schools. Of all the state's schools, SUNO is the one that can most easily be closed.

However, were we starting over--and we are not--we would not create as many universities as we have, and we would not create any colleges that are considered black colleges and that are in enrollment overwhelmingly black and are in effect black colleges.

Black colleges certainly can serve a valuable function and certainly can be good schools. But race-based colleges--and that is what Southern and Grambling truly are--belong in the private sector.

 

[wnelson]

I guess we should go ahead an merge Tulane and Loyola. I mean there is no reason for schools to be that close together.

they are private... but hey... i am all for it! i go to tulane now.

 

[wnelson]

All evidence I've seen shows a double digit graduation rate. Still not spectacular, but better than 5%.

Other studies have shown that on average Div I basketball players graduate at a clip of 20% less than full-tim male students. I guess it is time to cut basketball.

Many football programs at big schools also feature a huge disparity between their graduation rates and the student body graduation rates. Time to axe football too.

this is atrocious logic

 

[wnelson]

The sad thing is that low performers are the people that need the state's assistance. You want to know one of the largest contributors to SUNO's low graduation rate? The utter failure of New Orleans Public Schools. SUNO is the only place many of those students have the opportunity to go to. You want to take that opportunity away and you're likely going to pull the plug on any remaining chance many of those kids had. Sure the graduation rate might not be stellar, but SUNO is giving these people a chance.

And don't even try to tell me that they'll have the same chance at UNO. That isn't even close to being true.

 

[Saint Sarah]

So if only 5% of LSU players graduate we should cut the football program?

I'm sure they make money for the school.

Gotcha. So what you're saying is as long as people are bringing money in academic performance is irrelevant in college?

 

[livefromDC]

However, were we starting over--and we are not--we would not create as many universities as we have, and we would not create any colleges that are considered black colleges and that are in enrollment overwhelmingly black and are in effect black colleges.

Black colleges certainly can serve a valuable function and certainly can be good schools. But race-based colleges--and that is what Southern and Grambling truly are--belong in the private sector.

They're raced based the same way LSU-Shreveport is predominantly white and McNeese is a historically white school. HBCU aren't race-baced simply because the majority of students there are black. Is Nicholls race based? You're free to send your child to Grambling or Southern. The function that HBCUs serve is the same as the function historically white campuses serve...to educate the professionals of tomorrow. Enrollment is overwhelmingly black because the students that apply are overwhelmingly black. That's not a good justification for shutting down a school. Should we shut down Southeastern or any other school because the applicants are overwhelmingly white and are in effect white colleges? We could call every single college in this state that's not an HBCU a historically white or white college. Is the fact that LSU is predominantly white and has always been predominantly white a good reason to close its doors if we were starting over?

 

[GrandAdmiral]

They're raced based the same way LSU-Shreveport is predominantly white and McNeese is a historically white school. HBCU aren't race-baced simply because the majority of students there are black. Is Nicholls race based? You're free to send your child to Grambling or Southern. The function that HBCUs serve is the same as the function historically white campuses serve...to educate the professionals of tomorrow. Enrollment is overwhelmingly black because the students that are apply are overwhelmingly black. That's not a good justification for shutting down a school. Should we shut down Southeastern because the applicants are overwhelmingly white and are in effect white colleges? We could call every single college in this state that's not an HBCU a historically white or white college. Is the fact that LSU is predominantly white and has always been predominantly white a good reason to close its doors if we were starting over?

This.