Joyner - Underrated/Overrated CBs (McKenzies on one of the lists) (1 Viewer)

LSSpam

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Can you guess which?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=2679672

It's an Insider article but I wanted to discuss the results anyways.

First, real quick. The methodology is a little questionable. He lists only 1 penalty, obviously he is only counting PI (pass interference) calls, as McKenzie has a number of defensive holding type calls from his physical style.

Secondly, you always have to be suspicious about whether he (Joyner) can really recognize when someone has a blown coverage and when they were playing underneath expecting safety help. Joyner is not prone to hype and hyperbole like most sports analyst, but you shouldn't just automatically consider his matrixs the bible.

McKenzie is actually listed as #4 (out of 4) on the "overrated" column. Which is a little weird (since I didn't know he was even really "rated" by anyone).

The stats are, as follows

38 Attempts / 20 Completions - 314 yards - 1 TD - 0 INTs - 1 Penalty - 8.0 YPA (Yards per attempt).

The problem Joyner has apparently with McKenzie isn't so much McKenzie's numbers (which aren't) as it is that he's producing on par with guys like Ike Taylor, Fabian Washington, and Will Allen whom Joyner feels McKenzie is/should be superior too. But it's weird because on the underrated list he has Dyson (8.4 YPA, 6 TDs, 401 yards) who has worse numbers then McKenzie. Again, I suppose he has McKenzie listed because he isn't performing up to potential more so then lack of actual production.

(BTW, #1 on the overrated list is Deangelo Hall, giving up 11 yards per attempt, 4 touchdowns, 463 yards)



He also has Nate Clements numbers listed, 7.1 YPA, 1 TD, 410 yards.
 

SaintlyAgenda

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Pretty cool find. I found it interesting to see how McKenzie stacks up against some of the league's top corners. His numbers are better than I would have expected.
 

BoNcHiE

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Whats the numbers on someone like, say Champ Baily...just to get a ballpark for how far off the CBs you listed are from the best, per say.
 

Deuuuuce

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I, like you, didn't even know Mckenzie was rated highly in the first place. He is regarded as a capable number one, and not much more than that IMO. He has performed pretty well overall. I have't heard or seen much out of him lately, and for a corner, thats a pretty good thing. Ive actually seen him break up plays with tight coverage and he has also been in the backfield on some plays supporting the run. Overrated? I don't think so.

I do agree that D. Hall is overrated though. He's very talented, but too inconsistant.
 
OP

LSSpam

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Whats the numbers on someone like, say Champ Baily...just to get a ballpark for how far off the CBs you listed are from the best, per say.
Didn't list. He only listed 10 CBs total, i'll list them all

Underrated
1. Anthony Henry - 36/75, 429 yds, 2 TDs, 3 INTs, 4penalties-62yds, 6.5 YPA

2. Aaron Glenn (nickel back) - 7/16, 84 yds, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 0-0, 5.3 YPA

3. Andre Dyson - 35/48, 401 yds, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-0, 8.4 YPA (how is this good? 73% completion percentage, 6 TDs, 8.4 YPA? That's good?)

4. Andre Goodman - 17/42, 268 yds, 1 TDs, 1 INTs, 3-18, 6.8 YPA

Overrated
1. Deangelo Fall - 28/56, 575 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 1-27, 10.8 YPA

2. Chris Gamble - 23/42, 463 yds, 4 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-0, 11.0 YPA

3. Dunta Robinson - 26/54, 389 yds, 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 1-5, 7.3 YPA (head-scratcher)

4. Mike McKenzie - 20/38, 314 yds, 1 TDs, 0 INTs, 1-10, 8.0 YPA



1. Nate Clements - 33/56, 410 yds, 1 TDs, 3 INTs, 1-10, 7.1 YPA

2. Terrence McGee - 37/53, 430 yds, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 1-19, 8.5 YPA
 

Deuuuuce

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Didn't list. He only listed 10 CBs total, i'll list them all

Underrated
1. Anthony Henry - 36/75, 429 yds, 2 TDs, 3 INTs, 4penalties-62yds, 6.5 YPA

2. Aaron Glenn (nickel back) - 7/16, 84 yds, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 0-0, 5.3 YPA

3. Andre Dyson - 35/48, 401 yds, 6 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-0, 8.4 YPA (how is this good? 73% completion percentage, 6 TDs, 8.4 YPA? That's good?)

4. Andre Goodman - 17/42, 268 yds, 1 TDs, 1 INTs, 3-18, 6.8 YPA

Overrated
1. Deangelo Fall - 28/56, 575 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 1-27, 10.8 YPA

2. Chris Gamble - 23/42, 463 yds, 4 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-0, 11.0 YPA

3. Dunta Robinson - 26/54, 389 yds, 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 1-5, 7.3 YPA (head-scratcher)

4. Mike McKenzie - 20/38, 314 yds, 1 TDs, 0 INTs, 1-10, 8.0 YPA



1. Nate Clements - 33/56, 410 yds, 1 TDs, 3 INTs, 1-10, 7.1 YPA

2. Terrence McGee - 37/53, 430 yds, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 1-19, 8.5 YPA

If anything, Dunta Robinson is underrated. It's not his fault the Texans havent been able to generate a pass rush since they entered the league.
 

SaintsRays

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Look at how few passes have been thrown into McKenzie's guy compared to others...

That is a better measure IMHO, percentage of passing plays directed to his side out of opponent's passing plays...
 

st.randy

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Look at how few passes have been thrown into McKenzie's guy compared to others...

That is a better measure IMHO, percentage of passing plays directed to his side out of opponent's passing plays...
Buh buh BINGO!!!!!! Exactly what I wanted to type. I guess the guys who have overrated him would be the QB's who face him.
 

Yeti

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I just love it that McKenzie has only given up 1 TD all season and guys were saying that he should be benched. It also show the fact that opposing QBs are scared of him since they only threw the ball at him 38 times.
 

BoNcHiE

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I don't get how the guy with the 2nd best numbers (besides that nickelback) out of all these cornerbacks can actually make the "overrated" list. It seems kind of like a confliction to me. You'd think the underrated people would have better numbers then the overrated guys.
 

Summed7

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my feelings are that when the nfl made the adjustments to the way they call pass interference it hurt some of the more physical corners like m.m. That being said, he's still solid in my book (he may be the most important piece on our team...(can you imagine if we had thomas-craft out there right now)). i also find that it's interesting that all of the overrated cb's are from the nfc south. where is this guy from, maybe he's out of georgia and he's just being lazy... ; )
 

Hit it

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Look at how few passes have been thrown into McKenzie's guy compared to others...

That is a better measure IMHO, percentage of passing plays directed to his side out of opponent's passing plays...

But this is wrong because it depends on how good your other corner is. For example if you are playing the Cowboys, you would want to throw away from Newman. That means alot of passes go in Henry's direction, not because he is not good, but because the other corner is great.
Versus the Saints, you have McKenzie and in the other corner Fred Thomas. Why would you want to throw at McKenzie when you have an almost sure completion at the other side?
 

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That's a horrible barometer. Hall actually has 4 INTs and he is stuck in zone coverage all the time. Neither the long Roy Williams TD nor the Hines Ward TD were his fault, yeah he ended up chasing them but he was in zone coverage on that side and both cut towards the middle. I hate our D-coordinator, he ALWAYS plays zone.

I agree Hall makes bad plays sometimes, but he hasn't been THAT bad. The hail mary against y'all was his worst play of the season. If they actually let him man up sometimes he could shut people down. See the Philly game last year he shut down TO. Yeah TO had over 100 but if you actually saw the game you would know he shut him down. Most of his yards were late in the game or times when he wasn't on him. BTW he's only in his 3rd season so he'll grow up.
 

geauxboy

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Too many people have seen MM as overrated. I just can't help but notice how close he is to the guy he is defending ALL the time (unless he expects S help). You can't bat every ball away nor can you INT every pass your way, but he sure does his best to disrupt the WR. Top 5? Probably not, but he sure is playing high caliber ball (except for the lack of INT's)
 

Craigj

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I've seen every down of Saints football and I don't recall MM get many if any illegal contact penalties. I'm tired of people hating on MM citing he gets a lot of penalties because I bet compared to other number one CB's he is average or below average in penalities.
 

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