Just how bad have the Saints special teams units been you ask? (1 Viewer)

[crosswatt]

I'm all for keeping Sean for as long as we can. But seriously, if you are going to be the highest paid head coach, you have to be able to look in the mirror and correct trends.* You can't keep friends on the staff who have no business coaching special teams in the NFL.

I think Payton has done a pretty great job of that over his tenure. The offense has been top ten for the entirety of his time in New Orleans. No other team this side of New England has been able to match that level of production. And Payton has tried to make changes to follow trends on defense. They unfortunately didn’t work, but at least he tried. Which apparently totally escaped you.

I know Joe Vitt did him a solid when he got caught with his hand in the pill jar, but dammit, hire a real LB coach, and not someone who doesn't mind being an assistant to Vitt, but rather, someone who is known for evaluating and spotting talent and developing LB's-- a LB guru with a solid track record who not only can teach and maximize the potential of the players he works with, but also will work with whoever the DC is and have the LB's in the right place at all times, in the best position to succeed.

What exactly is the problem with the linebackers this year? Robertson and Stupar have been very good, and Ellerbe is a true impact guy. He just needs to stay healthy.

Want to see what that looks like? Take a look at Aaron Glenn, at what he has done with what he's had to work with. Those guys might get some flags, but they're always in the right position and are never misused, like Malcolm Jenkins was before going to Philli.

And who brought him in? And had the foresight to bring his mentor Pete Gunta with him as a second voice in the position meeting room?

Or Curtis Johnson before leaving for Tulane - the development and maximized potential he got out of WR's from the previous staff and all the late round / UDFA WR's during his tenure.



Or Kromer and Marrone and the development on the offensive line when they were here.

And the receivers and line are a problem now? There was a staff retooling last year, and we are seeing dividends from that. Your reaching into the past to make an argument that isn’t even close to valid.

Highest paid head coach should 1) hold his staff accountable and 2) cross train his staff from the Scouts to QC coaches to position coaches so that when a Curtis Johnson leaves, his philosophy and system for spotting and developing is ingrained in both the scouts who now know what to look for and the coach or assistant coach who may fill his position, so that the production doesn't dip. See Bill Belichick for a great example of this.

Is that why Belichick has so many former assistants in successful positions around the league?

Payton has given Joe Vitt, Bill Johnson, and Greg McMahon way too many passes. Yes, I know we are getting pressure now that we have Rankins, but lets be honest, Cam Jordan, Nick Fairley, and Sheldon Rankins were pretty damn polished already. The inability to get consistent pressure with the front four has been an issue for years, and you've not seen Bill develop great talent along the D-line, and both he and Vitt have been here for the last 4 defensive cooridinators (while Vitt and McMahon have been here from day 1 in Payton era).

I love how every failure is an example of poor coaching and every success was good before they got here. Confirmation bias is such a hard thing to get around.

For all the Carl Nicks, Jhari Evans, Zack Strief, Pierre Thomas and ___ at RB, ___ dollar tree bargain bin WR, and development of UDFA and late round gems on the offensive side of the ball, under Payton's tenure, and more specifically under Vitt and Johnson's tutelage, we've had diddly poo returns in the front 7 when it comes to UDFA & late round gems. We've had pretty much zero improvement year after year after year, and the exact same can be said with ST's.

Off the top of my head, late round or low pedigreed players making or who made an impact on this year’s front seven are Tyeler Davison, Michael Mauti, and Nate Stupar. But even going back a bit. Junior Galette? Scott Fujita (Vitt was his first coach in KC)? There are several who grew and developed under these guys.

Hiring another assistant isn't the answer. Getting rid of their *** and finding someone who knows what the **** he is doing is.

Why do you always want to get rid of people? Why is that, in your mind, the only viable answer to every problem?

And Sean has refused to do that, and Benson is too past it to hold him accountable. Loomis used the "threat" of Sean leaving for the train wreck at SF to give Sean a 5 year raise. Why? Force that man to fire his buddies and hire coaches who will actually fix the front 7 and special teams.

Ever heard of Dennis Lauscha?

Otherwise, we will continue to see Saints teams with a play-off caliper offense and enough talent on defense stay stuck in a damn 7-9 rut.

*Caliber

Its damn frustrating because who is holding Sean accountable?* Who is holding both he and Loomis accountable for leading the year each year in dead money-- we already lead next year by a wide margin too?* Who is going to hold them accountable for haphazardly trading draft picks to move up and draft ******* project developmental players when we need instant contributors?* Or for the horrendous contracts given to FA's who don't ******* fit?

The team is in great shape cap wise going forward. And past mistakes have been and are in the process of being corrected. But keep screaming about last year’s problems.

I don't want the man fired... he is an offensive genius. But I want him humbled and held accountable and forced to make the right decisions with his staff so this team stops making the same ******* stupid mistakes game after game year after year. I want the OCD dedicated to the job pre-year off Sean. And I want a GM known for scouting and talent evaluation. Loomis can manage all he wants, but we need someone who knows personnel. Maybe Ireland is that guy... but Miami sure as hell didn't think so.

You will probably need to find a way to deal with your frustrations constructivly, because literally none of that is going to happen. Nor should it.

 

[TenTwo]

The narrative right now is that "special teams has cost the franchise three wins." Two of those have been blocked kicks returned for a touchdown. Payton brings in a specialist who works with the "snap, hold, and kick". This was a proactive move, based on information from game film, and coming from a place of knowledge in terms of what goes into the process of the team's special teams unit.

There is nothing "proactive" about this move. Proactive would be to recognize a problem before it occurs on gameday, and addressing it then. Hiring help after the ship is on fire should at best be described as "reactive" and it's not all that commendable.

 

[DaveXA]

There is nothing "proactive" about this move. Proactive would be to recognize a problem before it occurs on gameday, and addressing it then. Hiring help after the ship is on fire should at best be described as "reactive" and it's not all that commendable.

Indeed, proactive isn't a word I'd associate with bringing O'Dea in.

 

[thetownedrunkard]

Loomis and Sean are both brilliant, we sign a rookie kicker and he's cost us 3 games we should have won. Forbath wasn't having problems like this getting blocked this often. He also had a few other balls that have been tipped but managed to push them through. Lutz obviously has a strong leg and seems accurate but he kicks at a low trajectory. Doesn't matter how accurate he is if the ball isn't getting into the air. But i agree the SP teams coach should have been fired immediately after the Denver game.

 

[crosswatt]

There is nothing "proactive" about this move. Proactive would be to recognize a problem before it occurs on gameday, and addressing it then. Hiring help after the ship is on fire should at best be described as "reactive" and it's not all that commendable.

You're right. Probably should have used corrective there.

 

[firecouch]

Obviously McMahon is a problem and he should have been let go a long time ago.

Having said that, some of the plays that I've seen on special teams this year are completely mind boggling. How can a player in the NFL pick up the ball that was heading out of bounds on a kickoff and run straight out of bounds?!?!? He shouldn't even be on this team. It's inexcusable.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Michael Bay gets to keep making movies and Greg McMahon gets to keep coaching the ST unit...life's not fair.