Just made the switch to Debian Squeeze (1 Viewer)

[Buickman]

I gave Ubuntu 11.10 a try the other day and ended up with a ton of issues, starting with my network connection. I never had problems like that with previous versions. Finally got it working and tried to switch out of Unity. No disrespect intended toward any Unity fans, but I hate it. I just want the classic Gnome. Unlike 11.04, you cannot switch between the 2 any longer. I found out I had to install some other things to make this work. Anyway, long story short I just got frustrated with it.

I downloaded Debian Squeeze and installed it. Granted, Ubuntu is Debian-based, but getting Debian running the way I want is a little more cumbersome than Ubuntu, like installing the nvidia driver. It's all done manually. It took a little longer, but I have it running just the way I want it, and believe me, it's quite a bit faster.

maybe it's just me, but I've been pretty disappointed in Ubuntu lately.

 

[Hedon James]

I'm still running 10.04 LTS version, as I consider the "in between" releases to be the Beta versions of the next LTS release. But I do keep a current Virtual Machine handy so I can keep tabs on the "progress" of the OS. I'm no fan of Unity either...I want to like it, but I don't...it just looks like a netbook or tablet interface for my desktop; I like it on my netbook, but that is NOT what I want on my production desktop. I sure hope something changes in 12.04 LTS or I won't be upgrading to that either.

Until then, I just add PPA repositiories to upgrade my essential software, like Firefox, Thunderbird, Banshee, Ubuntu 1, etc... For now, I'm happy with that, but I worry about what I might do if Ubuntu doesn't get it's act together soon.

Perhaps Mint...they seem to truly listen to input from their forums. They also use the gnome 2 interface and have recently developed a Debian Edition (LMDE) with a rolling release. Or maybe I'll go upstream to Debian like you did...now I know who to talk to in order to get some input...

Good luck Buick, and keep us posted of any awesome findings, or regrets!

 

[Buickman]

One thing I liked about the Debian install is that it's fairly vanilla and I'm able to add only those programs that I want to run. To me, that's how a distro should be. If someone wants all those bells and whistles then they can install them, but it shouldn't be forced on us like Ubuntu is doing now.

I don't know much about Ubuntu 1 since I've never used it, but Debian doesn't have anything like that, that I've seen. Not to say something along those lines don't exist.

 

[Hedon James]

One thing I liked about the Debian install is that it's fairly vanilla and I'm able to add only those programs that I want to run. To me, that's how a distro should be. If someone wants all those bells and whistles then they can install them, but it shouldn't be forced on us like Ubuntu is doing now.

I don't know much about Ubuntu 1 since I've never used it, but Debian doesn't have anything like that, that I've seen. Not to say something along those lines don't exist.

Gotcha. And Ubuntu 1 is like Google Docs, without the Google. Beside getting away from prying eyes of Google, it is available to other Linux users (and a Windows beta has recently been released). Non-Ubuntu users can just do a search for Ubuntu 1 *.deb PPA repository if you're interested.

I like it alot; in fact, it blows Google Docs away, IMO, and is perfect for my desktop sync/backups. The first 5GB are free, with opportunities to purchase additional capacity in 20GB increments for $30/yr I think. I can also purchase music from Ubuntu 1 store, save/store it online, and stream to my Android. Ubuntu 1 has recently added Android & iOS clients for the music purchase/streaming functions. It's weak spot is Document integration. Whereas Google Docs is a seamless integration with Android programs, Ubuntu 1 must be synced manually from the handheld device; and forget ODF integration on Android; ODF is read-only, if you want to create/edit docs, it must be in *.doc format...how stupid is that?!

Typical of Linux ecosystems, the software is top-notch, but lacks a CRITICAL component to make it truly functional. Perhaps the reputed LibreOffice for Android app will plug the gap, but that's an estimated 12-18 months in the future. By then, users will have adopted the proprietary *.doc formats, becuase that is what is available and works...<SIGH>... Unless someone knows or becomes aware of a different solution; in which case, SPEAK UP please!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to thread-jack here. We took a left turn somewhere with the Ubuntu 1, which can be installed/subscribed on Debian systems...back to the regularly scheduled discussion of Debian migration...

 

[Buickman]

Thanks for that email. I read thru it. I'm going to use their method of getting Libre office. A lot of the stuff in it is covered by a howto that I use at howtoforge.com. I highly recommend taking a look at that site if you haven't already. It's just filled with howto's for almost anything. On the left side of the screen you can select your distro, or even a server like samba, in order to sort it out. In fact, I looked thru the howto a few minutes ago for Ubuntu 11.10 and saw a much easier method of installing gnome. Oh well, I'm not going back now.

I've never tried Mint since I figured it was just a branch off of Ubuntu. But have you tried any of the other distros just to see if they're to your liking? Myself, I've tried the rpm based ones like Fedora and Suse, but I just didn't like them. Eaux-yeah even talked me into trying Gentoo once. I probably learned more about linux with Gentoo than any of the others because you start straight from scratch. You boot from the cd to a prompt, build your partitions, format them, then start building the kernel. I just got too impatient with it because it's very involved and flags, masks and such have to be just right. But if you ever wanted to see the guts of a linux build and you have the time, then give it a shot in a vm. I've always meant to get back to it sometime, but just haven't had the time.

It looks like we use our systems for different purposes. My primary system is a win7 system because I do a lot of gaming and setting these games up in linux was more painful than I wanted, not to mention I couldn't get them to run very well. I use my linux system primarily as a server. I have a hardware raid card in it with 4 1.5T HDs running in raid 10, and I also have it set up as an email and web server. I also run boinc/seti@home (I want to be THAT guy whose system processes the signal that proves that there is extraterrestrial life). So I don't generally do a lot of work on it. It just sits behind me and does it's thing.

If I'm not mistaken, you use yours for everyday production type use. As we discussed, Debian can run anything that Ubuntu can, but there may be some pain involved with getting it the way you want it. Things are a little more manual and hands on, like video drivers, but those howto's I mentioned earlier usually have all the answers I need.

 

[Hedon James]

Thanks for that email. I read thru it. I'm going to use their method of getting Libre office. A lot of the stuff in it is covered by a howto that I use at howtoforge.com. I highly recommend taking a look at that site if you haven't already. It's just filled with howto's for almost anything. On the left side of the screen you can select your distro, or even a server like samba, in order to sort it out. In fact, I looked thru the howto a few minutes ago for Ubuntu 11.10 and saw a much easier method of installing gnome. Oh well, I'm not going back now.

I've never tried Mint since I figured it was just a branch off of Ubuntu. But have you tried any of the other distros just to see if they're to your liking? Myself, I've tried the rpm based ones like Fedora and Suse, but I just didn't like them. Eaux-yeah even talked me into trying Gentoo once. I probably learned more about linux with Gentoo than any of the others because you start straight from scratch. You boot from the cd to a prompt, build your partitions, format them, then start building the kernel. I just got too impatient with it because it's very involved and flags, masks and such have to be just right. But if you ever wanted to see the guts of a linux build and you have the time, then give it a shot in a vm. I've always meant to get back to it sometime, but just haven't had the time.

It looks like we use our systems for different purposes. My primary system is a win7 system because I do a lot of gaming and setting these games up in linux was more painful than I wanted, not to mention I couldn't get them to run very well. I use my linux system primarily as a server. I have a hardware raid card in it with 4 1.5T HDs running in raid 10, and I also have it set up as an email and web server. I also run boinc/seti@home (I want to be THAT guy whose system processes the signal that proves that there is extraterrestrial life). So I don't generally do a lot of work on it. It just sits behind me and does it's thing.

If I'm not mistaken, you use yours for everyday production type use. As we discussed, Debian can run anything that Ubuntu can, but there may be some pain involved with getting it the way you want it. Things are a little more manual and hands on, like video drivers, but those howto's I mentioned earlier usually have all the answers I need.

Good call on the HowToForge! I didn't know about that, but it looks like a treasure trove! What else you been holding back on, buddy?!

You're also correct that my box is for everyday production/work environment. Over the past year, I've replaced nearly every piece of Window software I need to earn a living. I have a VirtualBox WinXP machine for the last holdouts. I needed Internet Explorer for a work related website that only worked in IE, until 1 month ago, when it became viable on all browsers. I needed Zune software for music, but I replaced that un-hackable machine with an Archos Android device that syncs beautifully with Banshee and the built-in Amazon MP3 store service. I'm down to Quickbooks accounting software as the last remaining Windows holdout and I'm replacing that at end-of-life with a Quicken look-alike called Moneydance, whether the accountant likes it or not! Resembles Quicken, saves in Quicken *.QIF format, and imports/exports in same format. I submit the accountant will never know if I don't tell him! Then, I'll truly be MS-free! Gaming doesn't mean a thing to me, but I understand why a gamer would need MS...unfortunately, it's the right tool for that job!

I've tried everything in the top 10 of Distrowatch and made a VM out of it. While I've tried RPM distros, I'm a Debian guy. And while some implementations of KDE look interesting, at heart I'm a Gnomer. If an RPM distro could tempt me, it would be PCLinuxOS; if I found PCLOS before my preferences were set, I'd probably be a RPM/KDE guy!

We've talked about the Debian and/or Mint migration if Ubuntu doesn't provide a viable Unity alternative...have you considered the LXDE desktop? Jury's still out for me, but it strongly resembles the Gnome 2 layout, etc... and the LXDE desktop is supposed to be real lightweight and fast. Plus, Lubuntu is an official flavor now.

Decisions, decisions....fortunately, I have some time before my hand is forced... As always, thanks for sharing the knowledge...thanks bro!

 

[Hedon James]

FYI, I just read an article today comparing Gnome3 and Unity desktops on Ubuntu; their mostly similarities and few differences. The ultimate conclusion was to try both desktops and see which you liked better (or which annoyed you least, depending on perspective) as it all boils down to a matter of preference. It was kind of a depressing bummer of a story...until the last line, which stated "Or just install Gnome Classic from the Software Center, which mimics Gnome2 in appearance but with the updated Gnome3 code base." They also warned that Gnome Classic is not being actively developed, so the new eye-candy features won't be available.

Thanks for the warning, but WHO CARES(?!!!)...a production desktop doesn't need "eye-candy" features. Gnome Classic sounds tailor-made for me!!! Just sharing the info...

 

[eaux-yeah]

seti nerdz

One thing I liked about the Debian install is that it's fairly vanilla and I'm able to add only those programs that I want to run. To me, that's how a distro should be. If someone wants all those bells and whistles then they can install them, but it shouldn't be forced on us like Ubuntu is doing now.

I don't know. Debian has been drifting more and more to the bloat side. Although the Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD is interesting.
I understand the 'dependency' cruft needs for some, but that just gets in my way. deborphan does help, though.

I'll just stick with my trusty ole Arch. Good stuff! Since I live more on the *BSD side, it's the perfect crossover distro.

I've become somewhat (OK, incredibly) anti Gnome or KDE. They have both turned to filth, IMO. Watching the backnforth Gnome/KDE devs in a hissy fight only made me realize that there is no such thing as enough popcorn! Oh, and they're BOTH wrong.
Openbox suites me just fine and then some. I'm stuck in multiple terminals all day at work now and only use Scrotwm (excellent WM, horrible name) on my work system.

also, NixCraft is another very helpful site to add alongside howtoforge.

 

[Hedon James]

seti nerdz



I don't know. Debian has been drifting more and more to the bloat side. Although the Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD is interesting.
I understand the 'dependency' cruft needs for some, but that just gets in my way. deborphan does help, though.

I'll just stick with my trusty ole Arch. Good stuff! Since I live more on the *BSD side, it's the perfect crossover distro.

I've become somewhat (OK, incredibly) anti Gnome or KDE. They have both turned to filth, IMO. Watching the backnforth Gnome/KDE devs in a hissy fight only made me realize that there is no such thing as enough popcorn! Oh, and they're BOTH wrong.
Openbox suites me just fine and then some. I'm stuck in multiple terminals all day at work now and only use Scrotwm (excellent WM, horrible name) on my work system.

also, NixCraft is another very helpful site to add alongside howtoforge.

You've mentioned your Gnome/KDE dislike once or twice, but they both suit my needs. While I preferred Gnome 2 over KDE, Gnome 3/Unity is causing me to reconsider my preferences. You talk about not liking how bloated they have become, and I think I can understand the KDE comments, but what is "bloated" about Gnome? I don't want to come off as argumentative; I'm seeking to learn more. I'll still prefer Gnome over KDE, but I'd appreciate the extra knowledge.

Along those lines, I recently read an article in Linux Format magazine comparing different X desktop environments. I believe I remember Gnome, KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, Rat Poison, Openbox and ScrotWM being discussed. While I've never used Openbox or ScrotWM, I can see where those environments would be preferable to a terminal based power-user. But that doesn't describe me! Ha, ha!

I've actually used Gnome (2 and 3), Unity (IMO, it's just Gnome3 with an Ubuntu flavored skin), KDE, and XFCE. But I've recently become aware of the Lightweight X Desktop Environment (LXDE), and I've been checking out screenshots/default programs and such. LXDE seems to be a lightweight version of Gnome2. Have you tried LXDE? Thoughts or opinions? Supposedly a lightweight desktop (hence the name, duh?!), but do you consider this "bloated" also?

While I don't always adopt your preferences, I absolutely respect your opinions! Care to share 'em?