Justice League trailer [Oh yeah, *spoilers*] (3 Viewers)

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DJ1BigTymer said:
The thing about it is they just can't shake the bad rep and the mob is fickle. JL is not a horrible flick and if the critics would just be honest about it instead of resorting to a reflex ridicule of all thing DC, maybe more people would have checked it out.
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This is why I pretty much ignore things on Rotten Tomatoes and such.
 
DJ1BigTymer said:
The thing about it is they just can't shake the bad rep and the mob is fickle. JL is not a horrible flick and if the critics would just be honest about it instead of resorting to a reflex ridicule of all thing DC, maybe more people would have checked it out.
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Yeah, pretty much.

There's a narrative that these movies are total failures, that for some reason people enjoy perpetuating. Man of Steel had some flaws, but nothing jarring in comparison to say Captain America. Both solid flicks that dragged in spots. Look at their Rotten Tomatoes critics scores, guess which one is 80% and which one is 55%. But then look at the audience scores, MoS comes out ahead 75% to 74%

I don't have much use for movie critics for several reasons, and honestly, hardcore comic book fans play the discerning hipster role far too much for me to take any of that talk seriously.

"But Superman doesn't kill people!! He's too noble!! He's above all that!!" Yeah, maybe you missed the part in Superman II where he kills Zod and his whole crew, or the other part where after he regains his powers he goes to beat a guy up who picked on him earlier.

Meh
 
retrobanana said:
Yeah, pretty much.

There's a narrative that these movies are total failures, that for some reason people enjoy perpetuating. Man of Steel had some flaws, but nothing jarring in comparison to say Captain America. Both solid flicks that dragged in spots. Look at their Rotten Tomatoes critics scores, guess which one is 80% and which one is 55%. But then look at the audience scores, MoS comes out ahead 75% to 74%

I don't have much use for movie critics for several reasons, and honestly, hardcore comic book fans play the discerning hipster role far too much for me to take any of that talk seriously.

"But Superman doesn't kill people!! He's too noble!! He's above all that!!" Yeah, maybe you missed the part in Superman II where he kills Zod and his whole crew, or the other part where after he regains his powers he goes to beat a guy up who picked on him earlier.

Meh
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I saw the film a few days ago and I still think it's a good flick? Was it The Dark Knight? Not. Even. Close. Wonder Woman? No. Batman Vs Superman? Thank God it wasn't like that. I'm even considering seeing it again.

And I think the cyclical nature of the movie business lends itself to DC's criticism. With the budget rising with every movie, there's a greater chance that one will colossally fail. It's bound to happen, especially since for some keeping up with the movies can be just as difficult as keeping up with the comic books. Heck, when I saw Justice League, I saw someone legitimately trying to figure out the connection to Thor:Ragnarok.
The failure may not happen at Marvel. They seem to have everything under control and managed. But if any film in the comic book/superhero genre fails, that could put the breaks on everything.
And that brings me to the reception of DC. They didn't start out great. The first few were bad. Wonder Woman gave the DCEU a little more credibility, but I think most are waiting for that collapse to happen.
 
DC had been a mess for years on the big screen too prior to this. All the awful Batman sequels of the 90s, the inability to get anything Superman-related off the ground for years and year and all the ridiculous rumors around that (Nic Cage, really?). Warner Bros meddling executives probably have more to do with the negative perception and the actual flaws in the movies themselves than anything else.

Superman Returns was a movie that a lot of people liked despite its flaws and was set up perfectly for a sequel or two, but the WB execs got stupid because they "only" made $400 million on a movie that cost $200 million to make. The original Man of Steel was supposed to have been a Superman/Batman story coming out in 2010ish that would've gotten out ahead of Ironman 2 and Captain America. If that had happened we might be talking about Marvel trying to catch up with DC right now.

the list of DC productions that got halted or never even got off the ground because of internal disagreements is hilarious. Kevin Smith tells a story about his turn at rewriting Superman Lives and they wanted him to write in a scene where Brainiac wrestles a polar bear and Supes fights a giant spider and all kinds of other ridiculous nonsense.
 
Honestly, IMO, the problem with both Marvel and DC is that they're owned by hollywood. But at least Disney had the sense to put the right guy in charge. Jury is still out on Johns. But if WB doesn't get out of his way, the DCEU will be an utter failure.
 
For those thinking there's some critic conspiracy against DC, can you explain WW to me? It was a great movie and one of the highest rated superhero movies ever.

The issues with Man of Steel are well documented. That doesn't make it a bad movie, but this version of Superman is absolutely not everyone's cup of tea and you see the effort to correct that in Act 3 of JL. Suicide Squad and BvS were complete messes. JL isn't bad, but what paved the way for it is so bad that I think it's caught in a bit of a shockwave. Like I said, it feels like a 70% movie to me, but I also understand that these shared universes often get judged as a whole rather than that individual 2-2.5 hours of film.

There's no critic conspiracy. Heck, WB owns part of Rotten Tomatoes and an argument can be made that RT's late release of the JL score was to try and protect the movie. They just aren't good movies.
 
Saint by the Bay said:
For those thinking there's some critic conspiracy against DC, can you explain WW to me? It was a great movie and one of the highest rated superhero movies ever.

The issues with Man of Steel are well documented. That doesn't make it a bad movie, but this version of Superman is absolutely not everyone's cup of tea and you see the effort to correct that in Act 3 of JL. Suicide Squad and BvS were complete messes. JL isn't bad, but what paved the way for it is so bad that I think it's caught in a bit of a shockwave. Like I said, it feels like a 70% movie to me, but I also understand that these shared universes often get judged as a whole rather than that individual 2-2.5 hours of film.

There's no critic conspiracy. Heck, WB owns part of Rotten Tomatoes and an argument can be made that RT's late release of the JL score was to try and protect the movie. They just aren't good movies.
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Thankfully, I think this is finally starting to die down. Even the people over at the DCEU Subreddit, who were the biggest proponents of the critic conspiracy argument and often brigaded critics on social media because of it, are mostly just in a place of "OK, there's a problem and something needs to change." after the JL reception/box office fiasco.
 
Saint by the Bay said:
For those thinking there's some critic conspiracy against DC, can you explain WW to me? It was a great movie and one of the highest rated superhero movies ever.
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Because it was so damn good they couldn't believably trash it? Kinda like the Saints winning 6 in a row, and all the talking heads are like, Ok they're pretty good, but they're not THAT good, then they go into Buffalo and run for 300 yards and win 47-10, so what bad thing can you possibly say about that.

Do I think there's an outright "conspiracy", no. Do I think there's an unfair narrative being perpetuated because it's "hip" to hate on them. Yeah, I do. Even you've mentioned that JL feels like a 70% movie to you - opening night I read 6 reviews and all 6 were positive with caveats, but still overwhelmingly positive. Now people are acting like JL is one of the biggest disasters in cinematic history. These movies have flaws and certainly it is fair to point them out. Even WW wasn't totally perfect - it's the exaggerated critcisms that are annoying. I posted a link earlier to a Hollywood Reporter story that called it "tiresome" which resonated, at least with me. it's the same as that "Saints can't win on the road" stuff that we STILL hear, even though the last time the Saints were any good they won a road playoff game in the cold and gave the SB champs all they wanted at their house. It's just a mindless lazy default to a particular popular narrative.

YMMV though - I've never been Mr. Hardcore Comic Book guy so it's not sacrilege to me when one of these flicks comes up short of ideal.
 
Interesting reads in the thread.

When are we opening to spoilers? Really looking forward to seeing all of you guys thoughts on the movie.
 
retrobanana said:
Because it was so damn good they couldn't believably trash it? Kinda like the Saints winning 6 in a row, and all the talking heads are like, Ok they're pretty good, but they're not THAT good, then they go into Buffalo and run for 300 yards and win 47-10, so what bad thing can you possibly say about that.

Do I think there's an outright "conspiracy", no. Do I think there's an unfair narrative being perpetuated because it's "hip" to hate on them. Yeah, I do. Even you've mentioned that JL feels like a 70% movie to you - opening night I read 6 reviews and all 6 were positive with caveats, but still overwhelmingly positive. Now people are acting like JL is one of the biggest disasters in cinematic history. These movies have flaws and certainly it is fair to point them out. Even WW wasn't totally perfect - it's the exaggerated critcisms that are annoying. I posted a link earlier to a Hollywood Reporter story that called it "tiresome" which resonated, at least with me. it's the same as that "Saints can't win on the road" stuff that we STILL hear, even though the last time the Saints were any good they won a road playoff game in the cold and gave the SB champs all they wanted at their house. It's just a mindless lazy default to a particular popular narrative.

YMMV though - I've never been Mr. Hardcore Comic Book guy so it's not sacrilege to me when one of these flicks comes up short of ideal.
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The consistent narrative I'm seeing is JL is that it's much better than the other movies, with the exception of WW, but the CGI was weak and the large reshoots by different directors created an inconsistent tone. I see people calling it a financial disaster, which it is, but I honestly don't see critics calling it a disaster as a movie. Even the bad reviews I've seen come closer to 50/50 reviews.

Once again I think the critic scores reflect a lot of the view of the DCEU as a whole. It's fair criticism. The DCEU has not been well managed, the stories have been all over the place and the tone inconsistent, nearly every movie has been drama plagued and ultimately not very good. JL is the shrimp in a bad gumbo. Even though the shrimp tastes good and I like the crab (WW), if the rest sucks I'm not going to say the gumbo is good and the bad gumbo is going to effect my opinion of the shrimp.

An example of the reverse is Age of Apocalypse. The last few X-verse movies have been so good AoA got better reviews than it deserved. It was awful, but people tend to judge them as parts of a whole and FOX was coming off some darn good outings.
 
HISHE put out a decent review, with some spoilers.

Are we at spoilers yet?

I Honestly don't care about hearing a few spoilers.
 
Saint_Ward said:
HISHE put out a decent review, with some spoilers.

Are we at spoilers yet?

I Honestly don't care about hearing a few spoilers.
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I thought we said Monday (as in yesterday).
 
I went to see this movie today and liked it.
 

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