Kenny Vaccaro one of top "corners" in NFL, says PFF (1 Viewer)

[oldJC.SAINTS]

I'd give the title of heart and soul to Jordan , more consistent over the years and has seniority over KV

and way much better

 

[Saints318]

I wonder if we would have beat the Vikings and our Patriots if Crawley had played instead of Harris.

Crawley could be a big reason why Vaccaro has been playing a whole lot better.

Too much of a coincidence for Vaccaro to go from worst to 1st when Crawley over Harris is the only change we made.

I think every single one of us here felt like he was the better player all preseason by far.

I'm not sure at all why he wasn't playing since week 1 but I'm glad he is now.

 

[oldJC.SAINTS]

I wonder if we would have beat the Vikings and our Patriots if Crawley had played instead of Harris.

Crawley could be a big reason why Vaccaro has been playing a whole lot better.

Too much of a coincidence for Vaccaro to go from worst to 1st when Crawley over Harris is the only change we made.

I think every single one of us here felt like he was the better player all preseason by far.

I'm not sure at all why he wasn't playing since week 1 but I'm glad he is now.

That has been discussed over and over.

Trying to answer each of your point:

1. I dont think starting Crawley would have changed much of the result of the first two games. The whole D played ugly and the communication was not good.
2. Vaccaro has clearly changed position after week 4 (from Safety to NB/Rover back). No link with Harris being out of the lineup.
3 & 4. PJ Williams started over Crawley. Harris was believed to be a better NB than Crawley plus he could play ST.

 

[Swimmer]

Factually, KV is just not a very good DB. He does certain things real well. Great splash plays. He is physical. He plays in the box quite well at times, but he simply is not a consistent player, he takes plays off and he doesn't do well in complex schemes. But he hits like a truck. But he's still ranked as one of the very worst DBs in the league, again.

Many KV defenders used the excuse over the years that he was just surrounded by terrible talent and that brought him down. he has elite talent around him now and he's still one of the worst ranked in the league.

Bellicheck would find a way to get something for KV and ship him off. If we pay him the big dollars, it will be another terrible contract. This is the same KV who played for the Lamehorns. He has not changed since Lamehorn U and he likely never will.

Great talent. Well liked by his teammates. ESPN splash plays often. Physical beast for his size, but just seems to only play well 40% of the time.

 

[dutar76]

the odd thing is Kenny Vaccaro's PFF grade for the season is 40.9, good for the #108th ranked CB in the league. I just don't understand it.

He's listed as the #107 SAFETY. His ranking went up a little bit this week when they updated. It's now 41.7.

He's listed as the #26 safety vs the run. The #2 safety in pass rush. But WAY BACK at #108 safety in coverage.

His coverage grade doesn't make any sense to me at all, since they list him as the #4 CORNERBACK in passer rating when thrown at. That tells me his coverage is outstanding.

My biggest complaint with PFF (which I pay for) is that they don't back up their rankings with any explaination or have a way for users to "ask" about something like this.

 

[oldJC.SAINTS]

He's listed as the #107 SAFETY. His ranking went up a little bit this week when they updated. It's now 41.7.

His coverage grade doesn't make any sense to me at all, since they list him as the #4 CORNERBACK in passer rating when thrown at. That tells me his coverage is outstanding.

I think it all goes with the number of snaps he plays at each position: cornerback as covering the slot, Safety as playing deep and mostly zone coverage... I think that his hybrid use and position is hard to grade. For that #4 spot, I think that it takes into account only the snaps he was lined up as a slot CB.

Overall, during the first two games he was horrible, the next two he was so-so to ok, after the bye week, and when he played almost 100% as the Nickel/Rover back, he started to play good. There is still 8 weeks to go

 

[dutar76]

I wonder if we would have beat the Vikings and our Patriots if Crawley had played instead of Harris.

Crawley could be a big reason why Vaccaro has been playing a whole lot better.

Too much of a coincidence for Vaccaro to go from worst to 1st when Crawley over Harris is the only change we made.

I think every single one of us here felt like he was the better player all preseason by far.

I'm not sure at all why he wasn't playing since week 1 but I'm glad he is now.

The loss to the Vikings was a team effort. I doubt any one player would've changed that. Fact was, we had 7/8 new players on our starting defense. Defensively, we weren't ready for the start of the season. We brought in Crawley, sat Harris, sat PJ, moved KV into the slot, and our LBs started catching on to DA's scheme mentally. Also, we faced Bradford in his best game in the NFL. He's never played that good before, and likely never will again. Vs the Pats... Brady and Gronk.

Factually, KV is just not a very good DB. He does certain things real well. Great splash plays. He is physical. He plays in the box quite well at times, but he simply is not a consistent player, he takes plays off and he doesn't do well in complex schemes. But he hits like a truck. But he's still ranked as one of the very worst DBs in the league, again.

Many KV defenders used the excuse over the years that he was just surrounded by terrible talent and that brought him down. he has elite talent around him now and he's still one of the worst ranked in the league.

Bellicheck would find a way to get something for KV and ship him off. If we pay him the big dollars, it will be another terrible contract. This is the same KV who played for the Lamehorns. He has not changed since Lamehorn U and he likely never will.

Great talent. Well liked by his teammates. ESPN splash plays often. Physical beast for his size, but just seems to only play well 40% of the time.

I guess I'm not watching the same games as you or maybe I just have a different camera angle. No, KV is NOT a deep safety and no, he does not handle zone responsibility. I think his trouble with zone is that instinctually, he can't stop himself from attacking the ball. So when his eyes tell him the ball is going there... he automatically goes there. On the 3rd level, when he's wrong, it's usually a big play.

That's not something that's going to change. It's who he is and it's also what makes him great at what he's best at. Playing close to the line, covering TEs and bigger RBs /WRs in the slot. In that role, he's either blitzing, stopping the run, or covering for short distances in traffic. His instinct is kill the man with the ball, not field chess vs QBs.

You can't blame a player for having strengths and weaknesses, they all do. But playing a guy out of his position (on purpose) is on the coaches. KV is an elite blitzer, run stopper, and short to intermediate slot corner. He can even hang with most TEs, RBs, and all but the fastest WRs on deep routes from the slot. That's a very very rare and valuable player. In all the years he's been on our team, I've never seen less than 100% effort from him. I have no idea where you're coming up with that.

 

[oldJC.SAINTS]

No, KV is NOT a deep safety and no, he does not handle zone responsibility. I think his trouble with zone is that instinctually, he can't stop himself from attacking the ball. So when his eyes tell him the ball is going there... he automatically goes there. On the 3rd level, when he's wrong, it's usually a big play.

That's not something that's going to change. It's who he is and it's also what makes him great at what he's best at. Playing close to the line, covering TEs and bigger RBs /WRs in the slot. In that role, he's either blitzing, stopping the run, or covering for short distances in traffic. His instinct is kill the man with the ball, not field chess vs QBs.

Here we go. Totally agree. Now, question is how much do you play that type of player ?

 

[dutar76]

Here we go. Totally agree. Now, question is how much do you play that type of player ?

We have our FS, SS, #1, #2, and #3 CBs on cheap rookie deals for a while. We have cheap quality depth for both positions with Bush and Breaux (if re-signed). I've read teams allocate money to position groups and there should be money left in the DB account to re-sign KV to a pretty sweet deal.

As for the defense, I can't imagine Okafor breaking the bank, and I think it's doubtful that we'd need to bring in a pricey FA on that side of the ball. With the core of talent we have now, I think we can go "all-draft-and-develop" from here (barring injury of course). So again, there should be money available to sign KV if we want to.

Coming into this year, the 2 biggest names we needed to resign this season was Snead and KV. I seriously doubt Snead will get much unless he starts doing some big things real soon. He'll either sign a RFA tender or we'll get a pick for him (if I'm not mistaken about his status after this season). Brees will get his 25 million if he wants it and we should be fine with the overall cap to sign KV if we choose to do so.

So how much to pay him... that's the dilemma. I don't know what other similar type players have signed for recently. I don't think we go "out-bid at all cost" for Kenny, but I think we pay fair market value for him. He gets rich, and we still have our Joker/enforcer on defense. If another team offers him elite safety money, we let him walk and continue with the youth movement.

 

[trux]

I think $6-7/yr for 4-5yrs seems appropriate. Similar to what Micah Hyde got with the Bills this past year and I think they’re pretty similar players.


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[Swimmer]

I think $6-7/yr for 4-5yrs seems appropriate. Similar to what Micah Hyde got with the Bills this past year and I think they’re pretty similar players.


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For the 104th ranked DB in the league? At that pay scale, a Top 20 would be worth $25 mil a year.

Again, what would the Pats do? It is highly likely that KV has been doing Roids since UT days. His probability of soft tissue injury is likely high over the next few years. He makes some big plays for us, but he makes a lot of poor plays. He's inconsistent. We have Williams and Bell, both young and cheap just starting to come into their own. Bush is a solid vet.

So we get a Compensatory pick, take the money we would invest in him. Add some money and go after an elite LB pass rusher.

 

[Slaw]

For the 104th ranked DB in the league? At that pay scale, a Top 20 would be worth $25 mil a year.

He's playing at an elite level covering slot receivers and defending the run. Also has 3 interceptions in zone coverage. I like PFF, but to say there are 103 DBs playing better than Vaccaro is insane. He's playing at a Pro Bowl level right now.

 

[MVP's A Brees]

Didn't KV get a groin? How serious is that?

 

[saintbilly25]

Factually, KV is just not a very good DB. He does certain things real well. Great splash plays. He is physical. He plays in the box quite well at times, but he simply is not a consistent player, he takes plays off and he doesn't do well in complex schemes. But he hits like a truck. But he's still ranked as one of the very worst DBs in the league, again.

Many KV defenders used the excuse over the years that he was just surrounded by terrible talent and that brought him down. he has elite talent around him now and he's still one of the worst ranked in the league.

Bellicheck would find a way to get something for KV and ship him off. If we pay him the big dollars, it will be another terrible contract. This is the same KV who played for the Lamehorns. He has not changed since Lamehorn U and he likely never will.

Great talent. Well liked by his teammates. ESPN splash plays often. Physical beast for his size, but just seems to only play well 40% of the time.

I think you should go ahead and copy this on your computer now so that by season's end you can easily add it to the "I was wrong" thread started yesterday.

 

[Alan12]

Factually, KV is just not a very good DB. He does certain things real well. Great splash plays. He is physical. He plays in the box quite well at times, but he simply is not a consistent player, he takes plays off and he doesn't do well in complex schemes. But he hits like a truck. But he's still ranked as one of the very worst DBs in the league, again.

Many KV defenders used the excuse over the years that he was just surrounded by terrible talent and that brought him down. he has elite talent around him now and he's still one of the worst ranked in the league.

Bellicheck would find a way to get something for KV and ship him off. If we pay him the big dollars, it will be another terrible contract. This is the same KV who played for the Lamehorns. He has not changed since Lamehorn U and he likely never will.

Great talent. Well liked by his teammates. ESPN splash plays often. Physical beast for his size, but just seems to only play well 40% of the time.

Wow. We get it, dude, you're anti-Texas. You remind us in every single post you make about every former UT player possible. You need to build a bridge and get the **** over it because you're just as pathetic as all these LSU fans that continue to hate on Ingram for absolutely no other reason than going to Alabama.

I'd say it's ignorance but your incessant crying about it has gone so far beyond ignorance to just plain stupidity.