"Kill Kill!" (1 Viewer)

[BoxerJoe]

I guess if your relegated to third string you get the same amount of snaps. Even then, training is just like when the bullets are flying for real correct?

It doesn't matter. He has been here long enough to know the system. That's what Taysom supporters got told when we tried to point out that he had been splitting time with other position groups, just had his first ever NFL off-season committed solely to being a QB, etc. Stop the hypocrisy.

 

[SaintJ]

Let's move the goal post shall we? Go back and pull up the threads about the Bridgewater games, I challenge you to do that. Then, let's revisit this whole "he was well ahead of Winston" concept.

I have to be with Big_L on a lot of these.

He's a hell of a lot better than Bridgewater was or ever will be. Bridgewater was on a very short leash and the team rallied around him in the Ewing Effect (coined by Bill Simmons, when your best player goes down the team suddenly gets a combination the underdog mentality + foxhole desperation + let's shock the world). Winston has the benefit of neither.

Meanwhile, let me have a shot:

Good Winston:
-- I do see Winston hard counting, checking, etc.
-- He's also been protecting the ball pretty well
-- taking sacks when necessary
-- generally not throwing into trouble, though certainly against the Bucs he was pressing and then turned Q4 into a disaster,
-- on Sunday he did have a couple of dropped picks although they would have been great plays and not so much OMG what are you thinking, and on the two INTs one was a tipped ball and other other we had no choice but chuck it & pray
-- When the OL allows a jailbreak, he's doing well not panicking, and I think he'd be rolling out and/or taking little five yard scrambles more but I think he's more hurt than we realize and it's limiting his mobility.
-- still looks like an optimistic cheerleader who really wants to be out there, good body language
-- he's thrown some astonishing rockets in big situations, and they're still catchable balls.
-- if we've had a big play, it's because he did it.
-- doesn't quit, the ATL comeback and if the D can hang on and not give up that horrible touchdown, I am highly confident we win that game even without MT and Juice.
BEST THING: the upside. When he's in a little bit of rhythm and we have our best WR group out there (TM, Olave and honestly any two of Juice, TQS and Callaway), this will be an astonishing passing attack. And since Winston and MT both had limited camps, you just know this can get a lot better and soon.

Not-so-good Winston:
-- I see him missing some blitz pickups, although some of these have to be on the OL
-- he's hitting some hot reads but not always quickly and not always accurately.
-- his relative lack of touch takes away some of Kamara's awesomeness. Also Kamara did not seem himself on Sunday
-- conversely he's been locking on to some WRs too much.
-- despite some positive signs, still not connecting well on deep balls, especially to Olave,
-- on a related note, forcing down the field too much and (thankfully) overthrowing, although some of those might be just to get rid of the ball.
-- per the immediately above, I have no idea on god's green earth why he threw that ball where he did (four DBs, two WRs all within about the same 100 square inches, looked like a ******* six-yard hail mary) on Callaway's astonishing TD catch.
-- footwork and escape decisions could both better.
WORST THING: he is not seeing some really open receivers which he really, really should not be missing, no matter where they are on the read priority. (After 15 years of Brees's full speed mid-play quantum computer brain processing, I have no idea how good or bad Winston is at this relative to other QBs, honestly.) As opposed to the "best thing/upside" above, grudingly I have to admit this may just be who he is.

Sorry to go into tl;dr territory but I just had two Ritalin about an hour ago and then followed up with three coffees....

 

[saints4eva]

People let's keep it on the subject and stop the bickering

 

[SaintJ]

People let's keep it on the subject and stop the bickering

Was my post too long?

I figured if I put everyone to sleep from boredom I could stop the bickering all by myself.

 

[Saint Greg]

What does it matter he is in year three . . . so with that being said he has been the starter for 3 seasons correct? Year three was 08 for Brees and what did we do?

In 2008 we had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL and Drew was Offensive Player of the Year. Unfortunately our defense gave up almost as many points as our offense scored and we finished 8-8.

If we have the #1 scoring offense this year and Jameis wins OPOTY, everyone on this board will get behind him and he'll get a long-term extension.

 

[Doug B]

How long had [Brees] been the starter in the system at that point [when his passer rating against the blitz was better than against no blitz]?

I'm not sure -- it was something often spotlighted on broadcasts starting around 2009, the title year.

Brees hit the ground running in New Orleans, though. In his first season with Sean Payton, Brees led the NFL in passing yards, was fifth in completion percentage, and third in passer rating.

Despite that success, Brees has said is took him two seasons to master Payton's offense. And he did improve over time -- 2009 would be Brees' first season over 70% completion and first season with a passer rating over 100 (actually a big leap up from 96.2 to 109.6!).

 

[Saint Greg]

Despite that success, Brees has said is took him two seasons to master Payton's offense. And he did improve over time -- 2009 would be Brees' first season over 70% completion and first season with a passer rating over 100 (actually a big leap up from 96.2 to 109.6!).

I think the entire NFL saw a passer rating jump around that time. I mean in 2008 Drew had the 96.2 but that was good for 3rd in the NFL. Only 1 QB was over 100 that year. His 109.6 in 2009 was 1st but five QBs were over 100 and Peyton had a 99.6.

 

[Big_L]

In 2008 we had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL and Drew was Offensive Player of the Year. Unfortunately our defense gave up almost as many points as our offense scored and we finished 8-8.

If we have the #1 scoring offense this year and Jameis wins OPOTY, everyone on this board will get behind him and he'll get a long-term extension.

In 2008 we had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL and Drew was Offensive Player of the Year. Unfortunately our defense gave up almost as many points as our offense scored and we finished 8-8.

If we have the #1 scoring offense this year and Jameis wins OPOTY, everyone on this board will get behind him and he'll get a long-term extension.

Understood. We still finished with a .500 record. Remember, Payton himself said they tailored the offense to Brees. Winston is not and will never be Brees. The league has had what, 18 years of Payton's offense? We are not even running Payton's offense, it's a very watered down version of it and has been for what, 5 or 6 years. We need a new fresh offense that's tailored to whomever is QB, not the other way around.

 

[woohoosaint]

He's also still not "climbing the pocket as often as he should.