Saints Kris Richard - Richard will new the Saints secondary coach w/10 yrs in the NFL. Any thought's on our new DB coach? Scheme, Zone, Man..? (1 Viewer)

[VPCajun]

After that replay of the G.B.game in Our Dome w/ no fans? There were at least 4 super obvious blown calls, ALL against SAINTS! What a s$@tshow even last year was for US & refs! There's "something" afoot. I simply don't know WHY or HOW but ever since '09? Seems The SAINTS can't catch a break or more as our opponents seem to do, while we get precious calls to go Our way! Shame.....D't know HOW we even get our guys to ball-hawk % create fumbles down the field with hard, shoulder shots on the ball to tipping it away and to our own guys.
Say what you will regarding, jail-bird, Darren Sharper; that dude could BALL OUT! Trust someone may have that sort of year! What? Too soon or just too much to wish for? GEAUX SAINTS!

Why does it seem the norm that when there is a fumble the D players are oblivious to it for a few critical seconds! (Huh? What's that. Oh, it's a fumble.)

They should WAITING for a fumble every time whether it happens or not!

(And not FIGHT EACH OTHER for it, but be a TEAM-mate in helping corral the ball.)

Don't they practice these things???? (As a TEAM not as individuals...)

 

[VPCajun]

I met up with my brother (lives in Hurst) for that Dallas/Saints game out in Arlington a few years back.

Going into that game Brees and that offense was clicking (we were on a 9 in a row win streak) on all 8. I was really amazed the way Dallas & their secondary played. Thomas was bottled up, Tre had a hard time getting open & Kirkwood was only able to manage a circus catch in the endzone.

Guess what I'm saying is that Kris Richard really had a good game plan against a very good Brees led pass attack. I think he'll do just fine here with our secondary.

Constant D holding will do that for ya - esp when the Refs turn a blind eye.

I also remember a few illegal head shots! (Which I don't think were flagged, either.)

 

[Stalwart385]

Yeah I didn't want to be the first one to say it but I never understood the Glenn hype. Our pass defense has been so suspect and inconsistent. Of course that's not all on him but still, you look at the talent in the Secondary and I've just expected more.

I look at what Ryan Nielson has been able to do with the D line. He's been able to get the most out of his unit. Losing him would be a blow. Our LBers were a mess until Mike Nolan was hired. He comes in and all of sudden were getting solid LB play. Losing him was a blow. I have a hard time believing the Secondary will get worse under Richard. No way they can be even more inconsistent. Surely. Right?

Also it has to be good thing to bring a former DC to be a position coach. Maybe Richard can bring in some new ideas. Or maybe I'm just an optimistic simpleton.

The thing that always stood out to me is that DBs regressed every year they were here. Not a good sign imo. Also thought the unit generally underperformed for the talent there. We'll see I guess, but I was always in the not impressed camp.

 

[Trey W.]

Who sets the scheme for the secondary? DB coach or DC?

If the DB coach, then I give not so great marks for that - esp how the safety seems to be out of position so many times AND still doesn't know how to tackle!

Typically the DC calls the coverage and scheme for plays. The DB coach (position coaches) is who focuses on technique, assignments, and positioning along with developing and refining skills during practices.

 

[Trey W.]

I have a feeling we're going to see that Aaron Glenn was overrated. The Saints fed Aaron Glenn a steady diet of premier talent only for an underwhelming and inconsistent secondary. Defensive backs regressed the longer they are here. However if Kris Richard flops then the Saints have bigger problems than who is coaching the DBs.

While the defensive line and linebackers both play roles to pass defense, the secondary carries the weight of that burden. Here is how the Saints defense has finished in passing yards allowed with Glenn:
2016 - 32nd
2017 - 15th
2018 - 29th
2019 - 20th
2020 - 5th

Ryan Nielsen arrived in 2017 and has finished 10th, 8th, 5th, and 6th in pressure rate so it wasn't like QB's had lots of time to scan the field and throw.

I agree. It seems every season out DB’s have regressed. Lattimore came out as a rookie and played amazing. While he’s still been great it seems like he’s getting a little worse. We bring Crawley in, he plays great his first season, then fell off. Apple came in after a few weeks and played really good, next season he fell off too. Jackrabbit stayed fairly consistent. Marcus Williams while grading out really good still makes rookie mistakes. Just haven’t seen the DEVELOPMENT from Glenn, hopefully Richards can.

 

[Groovepro]

Yeah. I agree with a lot of ya'll. There was a thread a while back where a few of us were musing the bit of "underwhelming" factor of Glenn. As many touched on, he seems to work well with players who already have IT and maybe was able to develop them even more because his methods translate best to those who GET it already. The thing that stood out the most to me is when having a LOT of blown assignments, mental errors, and hesitation in the secondary is not a good sign and has to fall on the coaches, especially the position coach. He is a likable guy and "player's coach", but does that mean he can get production out of and develop "good" talent as opposed to "great talent". I felt that uneasy feeling of bringing that up, as well.

With having communication problems, things settled when Apple came in the the OHIO guys all seemed to rally and work together to ease communication issues and it sprinkled through the secondary. That shouldn't be the case that the players made the adjustments on that level. I am glad that was the case...they spoke the same language and had 3 guys on field with same base knowledge and language.

As someone stated, having a position coach with actual coordinator (and productive) experience is HUGE! I am really excited to see what he can pull out of our secondary depth. I think he will not put players in positions they are uncomfortable with and work the strengths while actually developing them. If Crawley can have a confidence boost and resurge even a bit to be more consistent...WIN. PRob has lost a step, but his technique has improved over the years and I think he can benefit from Richard getting him into the best situations to succeed and Ceedy Deuce is already seeming to have been cut from a Richard cloth sort of player. I don't want to use the term "bend but not break" or "stout" for the secondary if Latt is out for a period of time, but I think communication will be better and with seeming to go to a more attacking, simpler D, we will have some growing pains but not as much WTF in the secondary. That communication should be cleaned up and hope he can channel that throughout the S and DB rooms!! I think so. With Allen, he seems to need REALLY good position coaches to assist in the schemes and development more than some. I don't want to say it is a defense by committee, but I sort of feel it is.

 

[liveoakh]

Yeah I didn't want to be the first one to say it but I never understood the Glenn hype. Our pass defense has been so suspect and inconsistent. Of course that's not all on him but still, you look at the talent in the Secondary and I've just expected more.

I look at what Ryan Nielson has been able to do with the D line. He's been able to get the most out of his unit. Losing him would be a blow. Our LBers were a mess until Mike Nolan was hired. He comes in and all of sudden were getting solid LB play. Losing him was a blow. I have a hard time believing the Secondary will get worse under Richard. No way they can be even more inconsistent. Surely. Right?

Also it has to be good thing to bring a former DC to be a position coach. Maybe Richard can bring in some new ideas. Or maybe I'm just an optimistic simpleton.

I think you are calling it right. Our DBs are starting to come in above avg. size, and seem to be good wrap up tacklers. just what we need for today's game. Smaller DBs 5'10', 5'11' guys were very competent players back in the day, but today you can't launch your body and make the tackle, with out getting a flag for unnecessary roughness. In today's game being big and a wrap up tackler is a very marketable skill set in our new secondary scheme.

 

[Groovepro]

Then they really dropped the ball against the Rams in the playoffs. It didn't seem like they were prepared for that at all to me. But, I'm still miffed by that game, so my logic might be skewed.

LOL. It is hard not to be upset with a blatant "no call". I always go with "one call, no matter how bad, shouldn't dictate the outcome of the game". I was upset, but we shouldn't have relinquished our lead and boy, we had a LOT of holes in the secondary. Rams did a great job of running at the right time and exploiting our coverage. We never got a great balanced run attack going but boy AK in the passing game was fun to watch. Brees hit on that INT in OT. It shouldn't have gone to OT and it would have been a "pull it out" game at the end if we did secure the W. We should have done a better job and the Rams played well.

We get a lot of calls, but we should have games in hand (well, we want/hope that). Last season, didn't seem as bad and we had a good amount of calls in our favor. I think we typically win the ones we should have and lost the ones we put ourselves in the position to lose. BUT, that was a HORRENDOUS call...LOL.

 

[Saintscuffy]

I wonder if they will keep playing a cover 3 scheme in the secondary?

Aside from that, I think having someone who can teach technique will really help.

 

[Groovepro]

I wonder if they will keep playing a cover 3 scheme in the secondary?

Aside from that, I think having someone who can teach technique will really help.

With our personnel, I think so. I think Richard can (and should) make a difference.

 

[liveoakh]

All this talk about the new DB coach. It got me to thinking about how I evaluate later round talent at the DB position. I'm a Pro football Weekly draft book guy. The first thing I do, (after I flip through it) is go to the CB section. I look at everyone's stats. First, I look at how many times did they touch the ball, and how... PBU, interceptions, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. It kind of tells a story. You can kind of see who is a baller. Don't weigh in round projection yet. just the stats. Mark the good ones, that the (numbers) like.

Then you can start factoring in size and speed, yrs played and level of competition. The make a smaller list. Then compare these #s to the top 3 DB #s. The guys on that list may not all be shut down corners, but they make game day rosters in the nfl. Read Adebo's stats. His hands are all over the ball. He would have been a #1 pick in a noncovid yr. I didn't even remember his name on draft day. But the numbers liked him and few days later I looked again and he was there on my list. Do you guys have any systems for picking talent at other positions you would like to share?

 

[Will Survive]

LOL. It is hard not to be upset with a blatant "no call". I always go with "one call, no matter how bad, shouldn't dictate the outcome of the game". I was upset, but we shouldn't have relinquished our lead and boy, we had a LOT of holes in the secondary. Rams did a great job of running at the right time and exploiting our coverage. We never got a great balanced run attack going but boy AK in the passing game was fun to watch. Brees hit on that INT in OT. It shouldn't have gone to OT and it would have been a "pull it out" game at the end if we did secure the W. We should have done a better job and the Rams played well.

We get a lot of calls, but we should have games in hand (well, we want/hope that). Last season, didn't seem as bad and we had a good amount of calls in our favor. I think we typically win the ones we should have and lost the ones we put ourselves in the position to lose. BUT, that was a HORRENDOUS call...LOL.

Also seems to be forgotten, wasn't that the game that the refs were already trying to get the Rams back into? Wasn't there a drive (Saints) that took like 37 forking plays to drive 75yds? They had no answer, & the refs kept throwing yellow hankies every other play to back us up, and we kept plodding the ball downfield? I think it gets overshadowed by that atrocious non-call. Or maybe I am old and mis-remembering. ... it's possible

 

[Groovepro]

Also seems to be forgotten, wasn't that the game that the refs were already trying to get the Rams back into? Wasn't there a drive (Saints) that took like 37 forking plays to drive 75yds? They had no answer, & the refs kept throwing yellow hankies every other play to back us up, and we kept plodding the ball downfield? I think it gets overshadowed by that atrocious non-call. Or maybe I am old and mis-remembering. ... it's possible

We had some calls that salvaged a few drives and put us in good field position, too. I think it is a bit of a wash if take off the Black/Gold glasses since the refs didn't leave huge holes in the D, miss tackles, bad angles and such...lol. We didn't finish. I DO think the game gets overshadowed by that horrible non-call. I mean, how can it even be not a discussion on the field?!

 

[Will Survive]

We had some calls that salvaged a few drives and put us in good field position, too. I think it is a bit of a wash if take off the Black/Gold glasses since the refs didn't leave huge holes in the D, miss tackles, bad angles and such...lol. We didn't finish. I DO think the game gets overshadowed by that horrible non-call. I mean, how can it even be not a discussion on the field?!

My point was more to the unheard of (to me) ridiculous amount of continuous plays to go so few yards, and the helter skelter officiating up to and including the non-call, and for that matter continuous on into overtime. All that is over shadowed by the worst call in sports, ever.

But that one drive, had to be a NFL record, just mind blowing drive.

 

[ItFan]

I think to some degree these numbers are the result of new players and players hitting their prime.

In 2020 we had Jackrabbit, while in the previous years we always had a weak link on the left.

Malcom was our first pure SS in years.

Williams hitting his prime, gaining confidence again after the Miracle.

CGJ was a monster.

That’s 4 positions out 5 that got their fair share of improvement. Can’t overlook this.