Saints LBs that could help Saints... (1 Viewer)

[los226]

Usually I would get excited about prospects to improve the roster, but I’ve felt pretty damn good about our roster the past two years and we still can’t get to the SB. Sadly, it’s starting to feel hopeless.

 

[KCWhoDat]

It's time to maybe change up the strategy when looking at Linebackers.

All the smarts in the world can't help you if are 1 on 1 on the edge against Dalvin Cook, or Raheem Mostert once they beat you to the edge, and turn the Corner if you're only a 4.7, 4.8 guy... and a 3 yard gain turns into 10-15 yarder. You have a headstart, you know where the back is going... but you just can't make it there in time.. it's just like a bad dream.

The Saints consistently have had some of the slowest Linebacking units in the league over the years, Demario is the only guy that can make routine sideline to sideline plays. Other teams have Defensive Tackles (49ers) that can run down the Line and force running backs out on Edge plays, quicker than some of our Linebackers do.

Need to get a new starter over Anzalone....damaged goods. He would be better to sub in to rest the starter so there isn't any drop off.....hes got starter talent just brittle. Vilma and Davis have been our only stand out linebackers. I can’t think of very many over the years outside of the Dome Patrol. We have been weak at LB for 25 years..

 

[Saint Taysom]

It isn't like the Saints haven't wanted speed at the linebacker position. But they prioritize instincts and smarts over everything. That's another reason we don't draft many guys there. It also is why we don't sign the fastest players. Unless you're signing the cream of the crop, and paying that price, you've got to sacrifice something. And the Saints would rather have someone a step slower than a step dumber.

You can coach a “dumb” player to make the right reads and understand a defense... you can’t teach speed and athleticism though. So the Saints don’t trust their coaches to “coach anyone up?” I don’t know about that.

 

[Bespoke]

You can coach a “dumb” player to make the right reads and understand a defense... you can’t teach speed and athleticism though. So the Saints don’t trust their coaches to “coach anyone up?” I don’t know about that.

It's also a gross misrepresentation to just assume all fast, athletic Linebackers are somehow "dumb"..

There are teams that Draft guys like Bobby Wagner, and Eric Kendricks in the 2nd round, Fred Warner in the 3rd round and they turn out to be some of the most cerebral players at their position.

And then there's a team that drafts Stanley Arnoux, Stephone Anthony, Davis Tull, Martez Wilson who become career Special teamers, or out of the league in a few years..

Coaching plays a big part of it too.. but maybe a few more boxes need to be to ticked when scouting Linebackers than; High motor, Film room guy, Lunch pale guy...

 

[WxM]

It's also a gross misrepresentation to just assume all fast, athletic Linebackers are somehow "dumb"..

No one did that. I certainly didn't.

I specifically said that unless you're willing and able to sacrifice premium resources (like, a top dollar contract or a high pick), you're going to have to sacrifice something. If you want elite speed, unless you pay the price, you're going to have to give up something else. If you don't want to give up instincts either, then perhaps you can give up health. News flash: that's Alex Anzalone.

We choose to invest in positions like QB, OT, DE, and CB. We even pay top dollar for our kicker and punter. There simply aren't enough resources with any team to do that at every position, so priorities must take place.

 

[WxM]

You can coach a “dumb” player to make the right reads and understand a defense... you can’t teach speed and athleticism though. So the Saints don’t trust their coaches to “coach anyone up?” I don’t know about that.

That isn't necessarily true. You can improve somewhat on intellect, just as you can maximize your athletic ability. But instincts are something you either have, or you don't.

Sedrick Hodge wouldn't have been a good player under any coaching staff.

 

[Bespoke]

No one did that. I certainly didn't.

I specifically said that unless you're willing and able to sacrifice premium resources (like, a top dollar contract or a high pick), you're going to have to sacrifice something. If you want elite speed, unless you pay the price, you're going to have to give up something else.

We choose to invest in positions like QB, OT, DE, and CB. We even pay top dollar for our kicker and punter. There simply aren't enough resources with any team to do that at every position, so priorities must take place.

That's where proper scouting, and player development come in. When you successfully scout and coach, you hit on your Draft picks you get production from Rookie contracts.. and you can build through the Draft cheaply without spending a ton of capital. Guys like Kwon Alexander, and KJ Wright came out of the 4th round.

When you miss on draft picks you either overpay in Free agency, or you have to settle for the Journey men of the league like the Manti Teo's, and Craig Robertson's of the world.

You seem to be right that Linebacker just seems to be a position the Saints don't value and don't want to invest even 3rd round capital in lately.. so we can't really complain when getting beat to the edges, and misdirection runs seem to be a problematic theme year after year because they are getting by with so-so lunch pale Free agents, or undrafted projects at the position.

 

[WxM]

That's where proper scouting, and player development come in. When you successfully scout and coach, you hit on your Draft picks you get production from Rookie contacts.. and you can build through the Draft cheaply without spending a ton of capital. Guys like Kwon Alexander, and KJ Wright came out of the 4th round.

When you miss on draft picks you either overpay in Free agency, or you have to settle for the Journey men of the league like the Manti Teo's, and Craig Robertson's of the world.

You seem to be right that Linebacker just seems to be a position the Saints don't value and don't want to invest even 3rd round capital in lately.. so we can't really complain when getting beat to the edges, and misdirection runs seem to be a problematic theme year after year because they are getting by with so-so lunch pale Free agents, or undrafted projects at the position.

We have been fine at setting the edges, with some of the best overall run defense in the league, for a few years now. Generally, except for the top players in football, speed guys aren't as good in stopping the run. Of course, things got significantly worse when we lost Davenport.

I haven't noticed a major problem with misdirection runs until the second half of this year, and we seemed to correct it pretty well by the last couple games. A big part of that is the weakness of the 4-3, and another big part is that we are an aggressive defense. A faster player, smart or not, won't necessarily help this, because even if he knows what he's doing, if it's misdirection and he's wrong (as every player is occasionally), he will simply run the wrong way faster.

 

[Bespoke]

We have been fine at setting the edges, with some of the best overall run defense in the league, for a few years now. Generally, except for the top players in football, speed guys aren't as good in stopping the run. Of course, things got significantly worse when we lost Davenport.

I haven't noticed a major problem with misdirection runs until the second half of this year, and we seemed to correct it pretty well by the last couple games. A big part of that is the weakness of the 4-3, and another big part is that we are an aggressive defense. A faster player, smart or not, won't necessarily help this, because even if he knows what he's doing, if it's misdirection and he's wrong (as every player is occasionally), he will simply run the wrong way faster.

The first Atlanta loss, San Francisco game, and 1st half of the Viking playoff game, were all instances where the Defense had major trouble getting off the field, lost the time of possession battle, and there were a lot of schemed outside run plays, toss-cracks, zone runs that bounced outside, and reverses with speedy receivers. It also led to play action boot, waggle plays that they had trouble Defending.

You are right that under Allen the defense has a tendency to be aggressive, sometimes over aggressive and that can hurt them on misdirection. Also End play does play a huge role in defending outside runs, for as great as Cam is one tendency he does have is too crash inside too hard at times and give up the Edge which puts more stress on that force OLB, or Corner.

Most teams would not attack the Saints with inside runs because of the Interior Defenders. Onyemetta, Malcolm Brown, even Tuttle are premier anchor players and are very difficult to move.. if you attack the Saints it's to the edges to outflank them (if you have a shifty, speedy back) the worst instance of this was the 49ers game where the 49ers averaged 16 yards per play in the first half Mostert, and Brieda were ripping off 10-15 yard runs frequently where no one got off blocks, they captured the edge easily and a DB from the secondary was the first point of contact.

I'll finish with
Klein is an UFA
Alonso suffered ACL tear 3 and might be a cap savings cut with a high cap hit
Anzalone is a health ??

I think it would be wise and timely for the Saints to invest some capital in the Linebacker position.

 

[Pkessling]

We have been fine at setting the edges, with some of the best overall run defense in the league, for a few years now. Generally, except for the top players in football, speed guys aren't as good in stopping the run. Of course, things got significantly worse when we lost Davenport.

I haven't noticed a major problem with misdirection runs until the second half of this year, and we seemed to correct it pretty well by the last couple games. A big part of that is the weakness of the 4-3, and another big part is that we are an aggressive defense. A faster player, smart or not, won't necessarily help this, because even if he knows what he's doing, if it's misdirection and he's wrong (as every player is occasionally), he will simply run the wrong way faster.

Totally disagree. Teams have been attacking us on the edge for the last two years. Our DEs are so intent on getting the sack that they take inside rushes and don’t set the edge. Then with only 2 LBs in the game , they are unable to get to the edge in time. A speedy LB to pair with Davis is the #1 need on defense.

 

[tjharris]

Anybody watching the NC game?
Queen for LSU looks good

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You can coach a “dumb” player to make the right reads and understand a defense... you can’t teach speed and athleticism though. So the Saints don’t trust their coaches to “coach anyone up?” I don’t know about that.

SJB

 

[Eman5805]

Far as the draft goes, I like Murray, Isaiah Simmons, Hamsah Nasirildeen might be a 3rd day sleeper we can scoop because he's nursing an injury. We can get a quality LB. Hate to think of it, but who knows if Anzalone will ever be healthy.


Oh yeah. Patrick Queen has been all over the place too.

 

[stevo3]

Look... I don’t know a lot about Schobert, and I watched very little-to-zero Cleveland Browns games. All of the scouting reports on him are basically the cookie cutter “white guy” checklist (ie. He’s a hard worker, student of the game, lunch pail guy, more quick than fast... etc...). I trust most of your opinions, but is Schobert really what the Saints defense needs? Is he a sideline-to-sideline LB than has the speed and athleticism to effectively cover RBs and TEs?

See below:
Averaged 100+ tackles every season after his rookie season. Forced 3+ turnovers every season after his rookie season. Just because he doesn't have the name recognition doesn't mean he isn't a stud!

Joe Schobert Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Joe Schobert. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Stalwart385]

It isn't like the Saints haven't wanted speed at the linebacker position. But they prioritize instincts and smarts over everything. That's another reason we don't draft many guys there. It also is why we don't sign the fastest players. Unless you're signing the cream of the crop, and paying that price, you've got to sacrifice something. And the Saints would rather have someone a step slower than a step dumber.

Lessons learned from Stephone Anthony perhaps.