Leaving Iraq, Honorably (1 Viewer)

THAJCODE

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Chuck Hagel's take:

There will be no victory or defeat for the United States in Iraq. These terms do not reflect the reality of what is going to happen there. The future of Iraq was always going to be determined by the Iraqis -- not the Americans.

Iraq is not a prize to be won or lost. It is part of the ongoing global struggle against instability, brutality, intolerance, extremism and terrorism. There will be no military victory or military solution for Iraq. Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger made this point last weekend.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/24/AR2006112401104.html
 

MLU

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Which is why we need to divide it up into three little countries, shoot anyone who disagrees and brainwash those left alive just like Germany.
 

dapperdan

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Well, Chuck Hagel notwithstanding, Pres Bush is going over to meet with Malaiki this week. Coalition forces have been methodically pushing al-Sadr into a corner, at least since mid August. al-Sadr has threatened to walk away from the government if Malaiki meets with Bush, and Bush seems to be saying, fine, walk. aka Dead Man Walking. Politically, it makes sense for Bush to take on, most probably the blodiest portion of this war before the Democrats take control of Congress. It could be a very bloody December in Iraq.
 

Saintuary

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We did not leave with honor in Korea, Vietnam and we won't leave with honor in Iraq. So, leave. What's the big deal, we've screwed up again and for what, Halliburton?
 
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dapperdan

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We did not leave with honor in Korea, Vietnam and we won't leave with honor in Iraq. So, leave. What's the big deal, we've screwed up again and for what, Haliburton?
Ok. I've been dying to ask a few questions about Haliburton. If you are correct about Haliburton, where are the profits being hidden? They are a public company, so where are the profits from the wartime profiteering? Why haven't they filtered down to the bottom line. If what you are saying is true, it seems to me that you'd have a shareholder revolt on their hands. Where's the evidence? If you're going to make such a charge, please present the evidence.
 

dapperdan

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As it happens, the subject of Haliburton came up over the summer on a recent radio talk show, so I did a little digging. For those who are unaware, there is such a thing as the OSX index, or Oil Services Index, traded on the Philadelphia exchange. This would be considered Haliburton's peer group.

Of the 15 companies that comprise the OSX, in a 10 Year study based on percentage change in stock price, Haliburton ranked 11 out of 15. In the 5 year study Hal ranked 11 out of 15. In a 3 year study Hal ranked 5 out of 15. I did this price check on
July 25, 2006.

If HAL is making such huge prices, why is it languishing within its peer group. If what you are saying is correct, Hal should be enjoying the profit glow far surpassing it's peers. This is clearly not the case. Either what you say is wrong, or the Haliburton shareholders are totally getting screwed. If Hal is making these outrageous wartime profits, why hasn't it turned up in the accounting. There are forensic accountants who are excellent at digging up these types of charges. George Soros has, on his staff at his hege fund, some of the finest accountants in the world. You would think that after all this time, and all these resources at the disposal of those on the left, you could actually provide some solid evidence of your charges.
 
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Saintuary

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dapperdan, unfortunately my mentioning of Halliburton has nothing to do with their earning capabilities or lack there of. My comments dealt with leaving with honor and Halliburton's' role back several years ago. This is what sticks with me most.

Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

$2.61 million, a drop in the bucket.

As you well know Cheney was highly involved with Halliburton and maybe still. But this is turning out that we won't get our greedy little hands on the oil. So it's time to leave, honor or no honor.
 

dapperdan

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dapperdan, unfortunately my mentioning of Halliburton has nothing to do with their earning capabilities or lack there of. My comments dealt with leaving with honor and Halliburton's' role back several years ago. This is what sticks with me most.

Halliburton came under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil penalties.

$2.61 million, a drop in the bucket.

As you well know Cheney was highly involved with Halliburton and maybe still. But this is turning out that we won't get our greedy little hands on the oil. So it's time to leave, honor or no honor.
Ok, Cleared that up.

I have to say, I've never understood the logic of your last statement though, getting our greedy little hands on the oil. I'm a little bit unclear when was the last time we confiscated another nation's oil. I was under the belief that we purchased oil from other countries, which would be a voluntary transaction.

It seems to me that being the best customer of Iraq's only real viable export would be a virtue for Iraq, not something that would be greeted with derisive commentary.

And I still fail to understand the logic of Haliburton dealings with Libya some 16 years ago having any connection with justifying our leaving Iraq today. If geopolitical strategy should dictate that it is in our best interests to leave Iraq, great, let's leave. But simply leaving for leaving's sake doesn't seem like a really viable option at this point.
 
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Saintuary

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Dapper, chill on the stiffness. There is nothing logical about my second to last statement. Believe it or not, many in this country believe this war was started to control the oil by way of Sadam Hussien. We've missed our chance. When we got Sadam, we should have come home then., hindsight right.

Maybe you should ask someone else your concerns such as 'the last time we confiscated another nation's oil, I don't know, do you? For all I know we might be taking some oil right now. I hope we do pay for the oil we purchase.

What is this geopolitical strategy stuff? Was it geopolitical strategy that we left Korea, and Vietnam? I don't know. If it was, I guess it's pass time for some geopolitical strategy for Iraq.

We're in a war because of mis-information and it appears that we're too proud to be wrong.

Not one more soldiers life is worth the pursuit of this endeavor.
 

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Friend of mine had an idea last night that I thought made some sense; not sure how feasible it is: What if we pulled all of our troops out of Iraq and, since we know that it's going to be bloody, violent and deadly no matter when we leave, we (for lack of a better term)- compensate for the inevitable loss of life in Iraq by redepolying our troops to Darfur, where we can stop the ethnic cleansing and save thousands of lives, therefore at least having a net positive effect on humanity. It sounded a little "out there" to me, and my main concerns would be, how do we sell that to the American people and Congress- but is it doable??
 

System Shock

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If Hal is making these outrageous wartime profits, why hasn't it turned up in the accounting.
Enron?

In reverse, of course, where the accounting dept. was able to hide the losses until Enron could no longer survive. Hiding profits is way easier.
 

DadsDream

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The down-sizing of the military in favor of hiring contractors for the sake of not having to pay military retirements and benefits is perhaps the greatest bait-and-switch move Congress has ever pulled.

Started under Carter.
Gained steam under Reagan.
Hit stride under Bush I.
Hit its zenith under Clinton.
Fallout and fingerpointing under Bush.

You want to gripe about Halliburton?

Where were you when they were cutting those military jobs to the bone under the guise of Reduction In Force (RIF), the Peace Dividend, Leader and Meaner?

Where were you when all the base closures were taking place?

Didn't you wonder where all the troops that used to occupy those bases went to?

So, now that Congress and five different administrations have made the situation ripe for a Halliburton, now you want to complain?

Gimme a break.
 

BullDawg

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What is this geopolitical strategy stuff? Was it geopolitical strategy that we left Korea, and Vietnam?
When did we leave Korea?

Dads...keep pounding the nail on the head. I mentioned something about this a week or so ago as well. Peace dividend. Heh.

/peacesellsbutwho'sbuying?
 

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