'Leaving Neverland' (Michael Jackson sex abuse documentary) coming to HBO this spring (2 Viewers)

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Mr. Blue Sky said:
Why? It makes sense, and could very well be true.. it can also be true that he was a sick pedo who diddled kids, and his legacy will be tarnished.. BOTH things can be true.
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Almost - I think the phrasing “innocent child personality” makes it hard to be both. The narrative that he’s this child figure frozen in time projects, in part, a person of innocent or child-like ignorance of sexuality and other adult themes. I think pedophilia destroys that image.

But I agree with you that if you take away that aspect of it, it’s possible that he could be both this person of stunted emotional development due to his lack of a real childhood - and have this sexual interest in children as a manifestation of that.
 
superchuck500 said:
Almost - I think the phrasing “innocent child personality” makes it hard to be both. The narrative that he’s this child figure frozen in time projects, in part, a person of innocent or child-like ignorance of sexuality and other adult themes. I think pedophilia destroys that image.

But I agree with you that if you take away that aspect of it, it’s possible that he could be both this person of stunted emotional development due to his lack of a real childhood - and have this sexual interest in children as a manifestation of that.
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If he was so naive and childlike then why didn't he have little girl "companions" that stayed with him months at a time and slept in his bed? Because he prefered boys.

Edit: Did he think girls were icky and had cooties?
 
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superchuck500 said:
Almost - I think the phrasing “innocent child personality” makes it hard to be both. The narrative that he’s this child figure frozen in time projects, in part, a person of innocent or child-like ignorance of sexuality and other adult themes. I think pedophilia destroys that image.

But I agree with you that if you take away that aspect of it, it’s possible that he could be both this person of stunted emotional development due to his lack of a real childhood - and have this sexual interest in children as a manifestation of that.
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I think that's probably the right take. The vast quantity of pornography found in his possession kind of refutes the idea that he was an innocent, perpetual child.

That said, he was definitely a damaged individual. I think just the amount of plastic surgery he had would suggest some underlying issues with self-acceptance, if not self-loathing at some level.
 
superchuck500 said:
Almost - I think the phrasing “innocent child personality” makes it hard to be both. The narrative that he’s this child figure frozen in time projects, in part, a person of innocent or child-like ignorance of sexuality and other adult themes. I think pedophilia destroys that image.

But I agree with you that if you take away that aspect of it, it’s possible that he could be both this person of stunted emotional development due to his lack of a real childhood - and have this sexual interest in children as a manifestation of that.
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I think there is a big difference between someone "frozen in time" vs someone who wants to live a fantasy, and has the means to do so.

Anyway, the dude was all kinds of messed up.
 
Anyone who wanted to mute RKelly’s music is pretty much forced to cancel MJ too or just accept that they are a hypocrite. Molesting 7 and 10 year olds is worse than anything Rkelly did. Problem is that MJ is the most iconic artist of the last 50 years. Then you realize that David Bowie was getting with 14 year olds, same stories about members of Led Zepplin, many others. James Brown was an abuser. John Lennon beat women, so did Miles Davis. Pretty much need to just shut down Spotify all together.
 
That was brutal.
I regret watching it, but could not stop.
 
JimEverett said:
That was brutal.
I regret watching it, but could not stop.
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Yeah, it was very hard to watch at times. I thought it was strikingly genuine and decidedly not sensational. It was very matter-of-fact, even clinical in the accounts. The accounts the two gave were of the same exact behavior from Michael Jackson - it seemed he truly did love these boys like a lover, complete with the sexual stuff, but also the emotional part. The hours of phone conversations, hundreds of faxes, video messages on birthdays and holidays, buying gifts and jewelry. The boys loved him like a girl-friend or boy-friend, but Michael was also a grown man who had sexual interests and while he knew it was illegal and inappropriate, it seems he didn't seem to recognize how horribly damaging all of this was on a child. It's fascinating and entirely disgusting/reprehensible at the same time.

I have a hard time understanding how this could all be a fabrication. With Safechuck in particular, you can see how twisted it all was on his young psyche - his face contorts, he swallows hard at times, he gets lost in the there-to-fore repressed memory. To go to that depth of fabrication is well beyond the typical "money grab", it would be an oscar-worthy performance from someone who isn't an actor. And Safechuck is married with two children and a (non-entertainment) career. To think that he would present this, this gut-wrenching account of a relationship that his own parents endorsed and he himself failed to see just how terribly wrong it was (at the time), and to put himself and his family through this is just not persuasive. Plus there are all sorts of corroborating details for both stories.

I absolutely believe it. I fully recognize that this is "one sided" but there is no other side. There is no nuance here. It is indisputable that these boys spent entire weeks at a time with Michael, alone most of the time, in his bedroom, around his massive compound, on tour, etc. There is no disputing that Michael would call them (or fax them) daily, often spending hours on the phone with just the boys. None of that is in question, and it's all very, very strange. The only thing that could be presented in Michael's defense is that yes, all of that occurred, but nothing sexual ever happened. And that's just not persuasive.

In the end, Michael was extremely manipulative of the boys' emotions, the parents' desires, he disarmed everyone and then engaged in these wholly unacceptable patterns of emotional and sexual behavior. The boys are obviously victims, and each person deals with this damage differently. There are others - Jordan Chandler was the first to bring the allegations and his account was basically the same kind of behavior and devices that Safechuck and Robson allege. Skeptics will say that they're just following his allegations to make it believable but there's just way too much there - and way too much of it is clearly true. It is, of course, possible that it is a fabrication, but I don't believe it. I think it's far more difficult to believe that Michael Jackson - who obviously had this very strange need and love for relationships with boys while also not having any other adult relationships - did everything that he did but drew the line at sexual contact. That is actually harder for me to believe - especially in light of the accounts they give.
 
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Perhaps if MJ was alive today, he would be rotting in a cold jail cell, eating gross food, like Bill Crosby.
 
Video resurfaced a last week of Jackson and Safechuck out shopping for rings in 1989, just as Safechuck described. The cover story that got put out to the news coverage was that he was shopping for a ring for Sheryl Crow -- at a strip mall Zales of all places (because that's naturally where someone of his wealth would look to buy a wedding ring). Everyone was so star struck and distracted by his disguise that they paid hardly any notice to the "small boy" that accompanied him. It's pretty much documentary evidence of his (alleged) pedo activities going unnoticed in plain sight.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...son-shopping-wedding-rings-boy-005106633.html
 
What a piece of sheet. And people worship thus woman like royalty
 
I don;t blame the parents. I can imagine it was somewhat easy to get caught up in all Jackson had to offer. At the same time from my perspective I also feel like Wade's brother when he was describing his mom taking his brother and sister to the US to be close to Jackson - it is insane.
But I have been manipulated by people far less good at it than Jackson - so I can sort of understand.
 

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