Loomis get Drew done quick! (1 Viewer)

I totally agree with you DavidM as far as the realistic timetable or expectation for most rookie QBs, and to be clear, that was not my expectations for Grayson to come in and beat out Drew. However, I was expecting him to be in Chase Daniels role meaning competing and pushing Drew and beating out McCown by now....

Link:
New Eagles QB Chase Daniel told Drew Brees, 'I'm coming for your job' every day | NJ.com

Sill, it's always going to depend on the situation.

And I think the emphasis on "by now" is off because it has to either mean you expected Grayson to be Drew's backup in his rookie season, or you expected the coaches to announce the promotion of Grayson this season ahead of the completion of preseason.

Given that it's not unusual for teams to carry three QBs, and that Drew is now a 37 year old player, if they can manage it on the roster, circumstances might make it prudent to carry all three, anyway.
 
Again, though, it always depends on circumstances.

And I think the emphasis on "by now" is off because it has to either mean you expected Grayson to be Drew's backup in his rookie season, or you expected the coaches to announce the promotion of Grayson this season ahead of the completion of preseason.

Given that it's not unusual for teams to carry three QBs, and that Drew is now a 37 year old player, if they can manage it on the roster, circumstances might make it prudent to carry all three, anyway.


I believe my "by now" is on because my expectation was the coaches announcing the promotion of Grayson this season ahead of the completion of preseason....and this is probably where we respectfully disagree on Grayson's timetable. I don't know your expectation of Grayson, however, depends on your research....Grayson was listed as the 3rd QB behind Winston and Mariota...some websites had Grayson, Bryce Petty and Brett Hundley battling for 3rd QB spot, again depends on where you go.

However, many draft websites echoed Grayson's talent meaning "He's got the intangibles. He's got a good pocket presence. He's got the physical traits. His arm's strong enough, and I think he's got the right temperament." I haven't seen any of this yet, but maybe this year.

Furthermore, you would expect by year 2 for Grayson to get the promotion especially when Sean Payton dubbed him as "the one".

Link:
Sean Payton on Garrett Grayson: 'This was the one' - NFL.com
 
Furthermore, you would expect by year 2 for Grayson to get the promotion especially when Sean Payton dubbed him as "the one".


Even if that's your expectation, it seems like a conversation we should be having about a month from now.

What do you think should have happened over the offseason that would have justified Payton making the announcement that he was promoting Grayson ahead of McCown? What pressure do you think there is to promote Grayson, and demote McCown, before this preseason is concluded?

And having the skillset to play doesn't mean all similarly talented players develop on the same timeline, and fully realize the same potential. Some guys might have a higher ceiling but a longer learning curve and vice versa.
 
Even if that's your expectation, it seems like a conversation we should be having about a month from now.

Although I would like to, but I don't think a month may be the timetable. Maybe next season.

What do you think should have happened over the offseason that would have justified Payton making the announcement that he was promoting Grayson ahead of McCown?

See what I said about Chase Daniels. He became the back-up in year 2. Grayson hasn't as of yet, and maybe not year 2.

What pressure do you think there is to promote Grayson, and demote McCown, before this preseason is concluded?

Obviously none, but McCown is taking away valuable snaps from Grayson which further hinders his development in my opinion, and a roster spot for carrying 3 QBs. There's talent elsewhere we can keep on the roster "if" we could have went with 2 QBs, and had McCown on call if we needed him, but that will not be the case as of this moment.

And having the skillset to play doesn't mean all similarly talented players develop on the same timeline, and fully realize the same potential. Some guys might have a higher ceiling but a longer learning curve and vice versa.

Agreed, but again I would have like to see and read from the media about "progression" thus far it seems like a stalemate, but hopefully not for long.

For the record, I'm not bashing Grayson, but it would be nice to read more about him progressing. It seems like information about him is a "secret"...

You still have not answered my question about your expectation of him.
 
Worst Case Scenario

We need to sign drew, get whatever discount we can, and then trade him for picks. You cannot let him leave the organization and get nothing in return. THAT is the worst case scenario that needs to be avoided!

-Lassiter
 
I agree that you take a chance on him because of the success he's had. However, (I'll get it for this one) I wouldn't consider him a once in a generation talent.

I only say this because of all the other amazing quarterbacks of this generation. How can he be considered a "once in a generation" player when there are several quarterbacks in this generation that many will put on the level or ahead of Brees when it's all said and done. (Manning, Brady, Rodgers)

I mean, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't take any other QB because I love Drew's story. I just think if we had to choose the best quarterback of this generation, it's Tom Brady without a doubt...followed by Manning. So he isn't a once in a generation type of player when he hasn't even cemented himself as the best quarterback in the league.

But...we should take the risk, because of what he's done and because he is a special player.

Over the past 10 years, Drew has more completions, more TDs, more yards, and a higher accuracy than ANY of the names you mentioned. He led the league in passing as many times as ALL of them combined.

In my opinion, none of the quarterbacks you mention will ever achieve what Brees has... just look at the record books. All the others have played on teams with defenses and exceptional receivers -- through their entire careers. Brees has seldom had either an exceptional defense or all-pro level receivers (though he has helped some people have statistics like all-pros).

Why did Rogers look so weak last year? Because Jordy Nelson was gone is the common answer. How much did Drew's production decline when Sproles and Jimmy left? Nada. Rogers can't do what Drew can, play at the top of the league with only good talent in the receiver corps.

Manning has more yards now, but won't if Drew retires one year younger than Manning did.

To see how dominant Drew is when compared to those you mention, just look at at top 20 all-time for NFL seasons and the key QB statistics:

Of the top 20 all-time NFL seasons for Touch Down Passes (the only positive QB category where someone beats Drew):

Drew has 3 of the top 20 seasons
Manny has 4 of the top 20 seasons
Rogers has 3 of the top 20 seasons
Brady has 2 of the top 20 seasons

For Passer Rating:

All four of these QBs have 2 of the top 20 seasons for passer rating

For passing Productivity (Yards)

Drew has 6 of the top 20 seasons
Manning has 1 of the top 20 seasons (I was surprised by this -- it is the highest ever)
Rogers has none of the top 20 seasons
Brady has 2 of the top 20 seasons

For Passing accuracy (Completion Percentage)

Drew has 4 of the top 20 seasons (including the two highest)
Manning has 2 of the top 20 seasons
Rogers has none of the top 20 seasons
Brady has 1 of the top 20 seasons


For Pass Completions

Drew has 8 of the top 20 seasons
Manning has 2 of the top 20 seasons
Brady and Rogers have none of the top 20 seasons

So, for the 5 key QB measures, looking at the top 20 seasons for QBs for all seasons and all QBs to ever play in the NFL (notice 5 X 20 = 100 measures):

Drew Brees has 23% of all the top QB measures
Peyton Manning has 11% of all the top QB measures
Tom Brady has 7% of all the top QB measures
Aaron Rogers has 5% of all the top QB measures


Look here if you doubt any of the above:
NFL Single-Season Passer Rating Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

If you rely on objective measures, Brees is head and shoulders above Manning, Rogers and Brady.

So why is Drew not hyped like the others? I think 3 reasons:
1 The Saints just have not had the talent around him that Manning, Brady and Rogers enjoy, so the team winning percentage is not as high as some of the others. New Orleans has often found a way to negate a league leading offense with a terrible defense.
2 Brees does not play in large metro market. If he were playing in the New York, Boston, Philly, Dallas, etc. he would get a lot more positive press vis-a-vis Brady, Manning, and Rogers. Now it should be noted that Rogers is in a somewhat similar market, although a lot of folks in Milwaukee, Chicago and Northern and Western Michigan (many millions) follow them.
3 I don't think the New Orleans fans realize what they have and support Drew the way he should be supported. Objectively he is the GOAT... Hype-wise he is a footnote because we are just NOT aggressive enough in our support. We should NEVER accept that Rogers or Manning is better that Brees. Brady does have two things going for him: a lot of superbowl wins and a very low interception percentage. Rogers has just the lower interception percentage... In both those cases the lower interception percentage is offset by the much lower production. I just don't think there is any reason to say any of these guys are up to Drew's level.

Brees is the most accurate passer in NFL history. He has the most yards per game in NFL history. He has accomplished these things with good, but not great, talent in the receiving corps. I also think his leadership and his work ethic are unparalleled .... Finally, he is the most generous and community oriented QB out there.
 
Two points. First of all, Russell Wilson and Joe Montana are anomalies. Not a lot of Hall of Fame or Super Bowl winning 3rd rounders out there.

Secondly, Tavares Jackson and Matt Flynn may have been first and second string players, but that's not saying that they actually deserve those slots.

I get your points but you missed reading the rest of my posts because I am not comparing Grayson to Wilson if that's where you are going with your 1st point. I was clearing the air on a 3rd rounder can win the trusts of coaches if he is good enough to win that trust. Obviously Grayson is not where "I" expected him to be. And yes Montana and Wilson are rare breeds, so comparing Grayson to them would not be fair, BUT he should be further along with development however he's not there yet.

2nd. Your comment is not accurate about Matt Flynn. If you recall back in 2012 when Wilson was drafted. Many thought that Flynn was ready for the next step after what he showed in Green Bay, and by right he should have taken the next step as far as continuing to progress, but it was a fluke and that was not expected by a team that paid him starters money (Brock Osweiler may be the next Flynn). However, Wilson took advantage of it and became the starter.

All I was asking for is some progression by Grayson in year 2 and I don't see it. Do you see it because like many on here are trying to see how that Saints are positioning themselves here for the future and so far Grayson may not be the answer. I hope that he is because obviously we drafted him, but who knows....
 

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